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Triumph TR6 - Ignition / start problem

My car is a '74 California TR6. It inconsistantly will not start, but more often now will not, than when the problem first appeared. When I turn the ignition, all I get is a "click". Battery is new and charged up, all battery connections ok..ie lights go on etc. Is this a starter issue or a relay somewhere that I can't find?
Pete
Pete Russell

Good day Pete,

First of all, join us. The benefits are manyfold and free. You can join from the "help" area.

Now, yes, there is a 'relay' of sorts. The starter solenoid is mounted on your 'firewall' area just to the inside of the battery box. It may be acting up or you may have a poor connection. You can 'bridge' this connection by shorting across the two terminals on the solenoid (the large one that connects to the positive post of the battery and the other that connects directly to the starter). If this makes the starter spin when it's acting up then you're likely to have a solenoid issue.

You're well advised to remove the connections at the battery, the solenoid and the starter and clean them rather than just tightening them. I assume the battery condition is good.

The fact that the lights come on doesn't mean that everything is dandy since the starter draws MUCH more current than the lights and such.

Check the condition of the ground strap that runs from the bellhousing bolt to the firewall. Also check it's connection.

I do hope these ideas help.

As always, there will be others with additional ideas. Lot's of smarts here.

Jim

Jim Deatsch

Pete - Welcome to the TR BBS. Sign in as a member and then you can access the "Archives". To sign in go to :-

http://www.british-cars.co.uk/

Then click on Triumph and sign in. It doesn't cost you anything and there are no risks.

Once you are a member, mark the site below as a "favorite" and go on-line directly at :-

http://www.british-cars.co.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=tr&a=&mode=home

Click on "Archive" Then type in starter, or starter relay or starter ground (also click on "all of these words") and you can possible learn the answer to your question. If you can't find it, you will at least learn a lot about your TR6.

Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A
Don Elliott

Jim Deatsch wrote:

"Now, yes, there is a 'relay' of sorts. The starter solenoid is mounted on your 'firewall' area just to the inside of the battery box."

Jim,

Triumphs haven't had the firewall mounted solenoid since the TR5/250. The '74 Tr6 has an actual relay located near the fuse box. Everything else you wrote is right on!

Pete,

First of all, go to http://www.britishv8.org/techhome.htm and download a copy of the TR6 schematics. You'll notice the starter relay has 2 brown wires, one white/yellow, one white/orange, one white/red, and one black wire. The other relay is the horn relay.

You'll also notice that your car has a seat belt interlock. The seat belt control module is mounted in the passsenger footwell, near the battery box. If you wish to bypass the seat belt controls (recommended, as they give a lot of trouble), just connect the white/red and the white/orange wires together at the seat belt module. If you look at the '75 wiring diagrams, you'll find that's just what the factory did in '75 in response to customer complaints. This may solve your problem.

If you look at your starter and solenoid (mounted on the starter), you'll see a white/red wire attached. This is the starter input from the starter relay. If you jumper from the battery cable on the starter to the terminal with the w/r wire, the starter should operate (make sure the key is off, the transmission is in neutral, and the handbrake is on). If the starter operates normally when you do thie, your problem is in the wiring. If not, it's in the starter/solenoid.

Before doing this, though, do the things that Jim suggested, as that's most likely where your problem lies - bad connestion or bad grounds.
Dan Masters

Duh, you're so right Dan and my most sincere aplogies to Pete and the group.

However, what I WAS thinking of was the Spits which, of course, do have the solenoid on the firewall.

I'll catch up one day. We ARE talking about TR6s here aren't we.

Jim (in his own little world sometimes)
Jim Deatsch

It's OK Jim; I'll let you borrow my goose. That will keep you awake!!

Doug
Doug Campbell

What a GUY! I tell you, those Canadians, what great friends. Loaning me his goose. It's things like that which keep our two countries so close.

I'll be right up.

Jim (gooseless in Neu Yawk on accounta they all flew south already)
Jim Deatsch

Actually I'll have him fly down to save shipping. Once he gets there it's an easy install. Let him rest up for a couple of days then open your hood and fasten one foot to the neg. terminal of the battery. Fasten the other to the horn relay (be sure to use plenty of dielectric geese, I mean grease). Quickly close the hood and you'll be honking in no time.

Doug
Doug Campbell

Jim,

I can relate! I have an MGBGT as well as a TR6, so I sometimes answer a question on one as if it were the other. Can be real confusing at times.

And you are right about the Spitfires - they kept the firewall mounted solenoid right up to the end, didn't they? I should have said "Triumph *TRs* haven't had..."
Dan Masters

If the firewall solenoid is OK try thumping the small cylidrical pre-engage solenoid on top of the starter motor. I carried a stick for the purpose for several months. This solenoid pushes the starter gear into mesh with the flywheel and then allows full current to flow into the motor. When it fails all you hear is a click, as you describe. Cleaning the terminals can be a solution.
P H Cobbold

Pete, I had a seat belt module go bad and it caused erratic problems. It is up in the right side footwell behind the glove box. It can be bypassed if necessary. I bought a used one because I liked the seatbelt buzzer and key in ignition buzzer working. It was sort of like defying natural law.
w Holtzclaw

Ok, it's official.

Doug is a VERY sick man.

I'm STILL in hysterics here.

Jim (about to honk)
Jim Deatsch

Thanks for the advice (all of it). I was amazed at how quickly I got response, so I have joined your group. All wiring, connections and grounds were checked and all are ok. I then jumped the solonoid from the battery and got the same "click", so must assume that my problem is the solonoid.
PS you really did confuse me when you said the solonoid was mounted on the firewall., as I knew it was on the starter motor.
Pete Russell

Hope that straightens your problems out. Sorry about all the damn bird jokes - I think the others don't realize it's robin you of what it takes to get the TR back going.
Brent B

Greetings all. I just wanted to "close the loop" so to speak regarding my start problem that is now solved. Turns out that jumping the solonoid produced the same "click", so out came the origional Lucas starter. I found a repair shop in Beeton, Ont. called Lucas Electric who did a mighty fine rebuild job on the starter and replaced the solonoid for $80.00. I had to look twice when I picked it up as I thouht at first that he simply returned another and kept mine ( God forbid that)! So the back in she went and voila she starts right up. Thanks for all advice. I am now a regular reader of this BBS.
Pete
'74 TR6
Pete Russell

Well DONE Pete.

Ok guys, all electrical issues must now be directed to either Pete, Dan, or the Goose.

Jim (still honking just fine, thank you)
Jim Deatsch

Hey Pete

Mark that down Ontario guys that's a deal!

Pete if your in the Beeton area. Theres a "slightly modified" Red Rocket running around there. It's perfectly disguised as a TR6 with a little V8 Ford going/Toyota stopping help etc.etc. . Chris is a very knowledgable TR guy as you may have already guessed.

Bill
Bill Brayford

To see this modified TR6, download the Sept-Dec 2003 issue of the British V8 Newsletter, at http://www.britishv8.org/back.htm

If you should have a hankerin' to do something like this yourself, checkout http://www.britishv8.org/swaps

If you really get hooked, plan on coming to our V8 convention in Southern California next July, or in Grand Rapids, MI, next August.
Dan Masters

This thread was discussed between 22/10/2003 and 03/11/2003

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