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Triumph TR6 - No oil pressure !
All back together..started her up (cranked a few times with no plugs to push the oil around) she fired up ok but after a few secs I realised there was no oil pressure.
Disc (and broke) the plastic line to the gauge and no oil comes out of the block when cranking. Pulled the pump and it looks ok to my eye but I'm not sure,no big score marks or missing / broken parts.
Going to doe the dist / drill thing tomorrow with a spare pumpo that I can get.
This happen to anyone else ? it was fine the last day I drove it in and parked it last Nov.! AGGGGHHHHH!
|Does your pump have a pin holding the 4-lobe thingy onto the pump shaft. If not, it's possible that the 4-lobe thingy is not turning even thouh the shaft driving down from the camshaft is turning. The solution is to get a pump with a cross pin. Or put one in.|
No it does not have a pin..I also can't turn it on the shaft by hand..I would imagine that would be enough to tell ?
|Update...I carefully clamped the lobe in my workmate and tried real hard to move the shaft and it won't budge so that's one step eliminated.|
|Yuck! First I'd take apart the oil pump and see if a piece of something locked it up - there has to be a reason it seized. Then pull the dist. & drive gear and take a GOOD look at that - the "slot" may be gone off the pump end, or maybe a pin in there, if it has one, has snapped. The cam is driving it ok above the pump or it wouldn't have started.|
|Ah Ha! I just had a chance to sit down in the 'reading room' and saw that there IS a pin between the oil pump drive shaft & the gear - so definitely pull the distributor and gear out. Something evidently locked the pump up, and it's likely that pin has sheared. You may not have to replace the pump if it's not gouged out too much - depending on what you find. Also - the pin is probably brass - don't stick a steel nail in there.|
|Thanks to all,|
I'll keep ypu informed when I attack from the dist end tomorrow.
Still no pressure..can a faulty pressure relief valve cause this ? I ran the drill from the dist and got pressure but none when I start the engine or crank it it with or without plugs.
I guess all that's left is to put a new one in and hope thats it.
Forgot to add that when I first pulled the pump and put it back it climbed to 30lbs before dropping off after a few seconds...probably due to the fact I helped it by covering it in oil before re-installing it
From your posts I'm not sure whats going on. Mines sitting there oilpan off? If you want to come over we can pull Dis and pump and see what may be wrong?
I know you read these posts more often than your email..:) Let me know
|Hey Bill- That was a shot|
I'll call you
|I don't think a faulty oil pressure RV would give you pressure with a drill, but no pressure otherwise. Did you spin the outboard end of the pump drive shaft at the gear, or pull the gear and spin the pump shaft?|
Also, you never said what locked up the oil pump, and if you checked the pin between the dist gear and the oil pump drive shaft. There is always some sort of shear pin in a geared drive set-up like that. Otherwise one of several important components would break if the pump became jammed with something.
|How about a problem with the pick-up screen and/or the tube to the pump? Plugged or the short tube cracked (sucking air maybe). You said that you had pressure for a short time but you had soaked it in oil. Sounds like it's pumping, (till the oil was gone) but not getting the oil from the sump. Although that doesn't explain why you had pressure with the drill. Just did a rebuild on my engine a year ago but I can't remember how far that strainer sits into the oil and if it would even be possible for it to suck air. I'm rambling now. Shame to get old.|
The boof calls for 4.25" from the face to the end of the strainer and mine was close to 5"..therefore more strainer in the oil so I don't see that as the problem. The pickup screen/pipe look great.
I really think I have a pump that has gone to the TR place in the sky..I have a new one on order.
A mechanic friend says that the drill trick will not give a true indication of the condition of the pump since the engine is off and the oil is forced around better by a running engine. The drill cannot do it the same way. Something to do with pressure and volume of oil..(I think I understood what he was saying )
|Speaking of the drill trick to turn the oil pump, I have heard of this method many times... but what and or how do you spin the shaft after taking out the distributor? |
Can someone enlighten me on how to do this? (I also want to check my oil gauge without running the engine - no oil pressure but I can see oil circulating throught the rockers, but not as much as I seem to remember when the car (& I) were younger).
|I took an old long bolt and ground a slot in the end to mimic the slot on the end of the drive gear. Chucked the headless bolt in a drill, mated to the top of the pump shaft, and spun forward (clockwise).|
|Bob--Make sure you use a Sharpie to mark the drive gear tooth that's engaged to the cam BEFORE you remove the drive gear. Otherwise, you'll be wondering where the timing went when you put it all back together!|
|Thanks Rick. I always wondered where/how people got the adapter to spin the oil pump. I had heard from various hot rodders to use the shaft from an old distributer, but I didn't have one of those laying around. Thanks again.|
I've already gone through the timing the distributer problem once before. The previous owner had the head gasket replaced (claimed it was a full engine rebuild only 300 miles before I bought it, but there was so much crud around the oil pan gasket, I knew it had never been opened), and the shop installed the gear one tooth off on the cam gear (the distributer was rotated so far that the vacuum mechanism was about 30 degrees from where it was supposed to be, and spark plug wire No. 1 was in distributer hole No. 3, etc. Everything was wacked because of this. Once I got the distributer properly timed, it still didn't idle or accelerate properly (but would backfire like a shotgun going off), and I discovered that the cam chain was one tooth off of the cam gear. Once I got everything timed propely, it ran far better. Previously, it would not idle for squat. The previous owner said it had a full-race cam in it, as it would only run at full throttle. I realized that his claim was BS before I bought the car. (gee - it's hard to believe that it has been so many years since all this took place).
|Hey Rick O.....|
Doesn't your distributor rotor rotate counter-clockwise? Or do they run the other direction on the other side of the Rockies?
|Good catch Rod! I was thinking of cam rotation.|
When I did my rebuild I too wanted to prime the pump before cranking the engine. I stuck a screwdriver down in the pump drive with the distributor removed and turned the pump by hand. Oil filled the drive area and I realised that if I could turn it faster the oil would probably spill over onto the floor. I'm sure there wouldn't have been enough oil pressure to circulate the oil as it would have all run out of the drive hole. When I quit turning the oil drained back into the pan. The pump is a Gerotor type pump and will not maintain a prime. Everytime you shut off your engine the oil drains out of the pump and into the pan. This is one reason the oil filter was designed to stay full. One of the first places the oil is pumped is to the oil filter. An empty filter would mean a quart of oil pumped before the engine would get any. re-aligning the distributor drive and the cam gear is a pain, but I got real good at it. Why I could probably do it in no more than four or five tries now.
I was told to run the drill counter-clockwise which seems to work
|Joe--I don't follow how a screwdriver can be used to turn the pump shaft. You need a slotted tool to mate with the shaft. Could you elaborate please?|
Your right, it isn't a common screwdriver. I cut the end off of an old one and cut a slot. It's the drive gear thats a bear to re-align.
|Well I figured out the problem..I received the new pump today and when I compared it to the old one I noticed it was 4/16 LONGER than the old one.|
So I put the old one back in the block and realised I could spin it with my thumb when it should not have moved..somehow it moved back 4/16 and was not connecting to the dist shaft. The new one would not spin at all..thankfully !!!
I installed the new pump and had 70lbs_+ with a dry crank…I plan to start the car tomorrow.
|Right on Charles. Good work!|
Good catch. BUT I am curious. Why was it 1/8" ( 4/16":) all of a sudden shorter?
|4/16 = 1/4 , no?|
|Hahaha I just realised I typed 4/16 and yes it should have been 1/4...That was me counting the little tick marks on my el-cheepo measuring gauge at the time I was pee'd off with the pump.|
I started the car and all is well in Charlie Land
Rick C...no idea why or how it moved..I shut it off last Nov after a nice drive, and that was it...I tried hammering it back down inside the rotor but it is rock solid..I'm going to try heating the rotor part next ...I'm more curious than anything now but if it moves back I'll put a roll pin in it and keep it for emergency's as I had great pressure with it when it was connected.
This thread was discussed between 16/03/2004 and 20/04/2004
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