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Triumph TR6 - Thrust Washer Bronze vs Stock

Well over a year ago I discovered too late my rear most TW had fallen out and damaged my crank and bearing cap. I have gone the route of rebuilding another block/crank but in the interim decided to see what I could do with the engine in situ. I ordered a bronze TW from SH (very helpful chap) and put it in to no avail, it was chewed up in short order. Next we worked together on a machined one with an angle to fill in the damage but that one didn't hold for long and as in the first I continuously got bronze "ribbons" in the oil. I then put a stock .30 TW in place and drove the car for 6 months with no problems, last night I pull the stock TW out and it looks none the worse for wear. Now my dilemma is I put a bronze TW in my new block and now I'm seriously considering going back to stock before I put that engine in. I'm wondering if the bronze isn't too soft for the application. Anyone else out there use the bronze TW?
JT White

Hello JT,
On my last re-built 2 years ago I used a stock TW and I had no problem since.Bronze is a soft metal and I guess wouldn't last long. This is a weak area on our engines and I would suggest that you go on Revington TR site and see the modified TW they are offering. It's a good solution to the problem and this is the road I'm taking next time I re-built my engine.
Kypros Christodoulides

Hey, JT. I used a bronze rear TW on my engine refresh mainly to bring the end float into spec. I believe that generally they wear pretty well as long as the crank area finish is in good shape. That's what I would consider to be the consensus of users in other forums.

The failure that you experienced likely damaged the TW bearing area on the crank to the point it cuts at the bronze, but not so much the steel. The bronze should hold up well with a newly machined crank, and a bronze may be the only way to get that end float into spec, but of course that's your call.
Brent B

If your doing TW's .The only way to go is Scott Helm's washers.
http://www.britishcarweek.org/tr6.html
Don Kelly

Scott's are the ones I used....ordered a total of 4 over the course and noticed the color of each was distinctly different. No offense to Scott but after talking to him several times he's just getting them from a couple local machine shops, built to his specs...not much quality control in that. Copper does have a much higher melting point (1900's) as compared to bronze (1300's) I'm going to stick with the stocker in the new rebuild and take a $30 bath on the bronze one...the one I got from scott and put in the new engine was not polished and was of a more yellow metal then the previous ones.
JT White

Brent, my point is it (crank face) wore down two bronze TW's but the same didn't happen with the copper plated stocker....same crank face, $6 over the counter TW; copper face still well intact after 4 times as much driving then with the bronze ones.
JT White

JT
Why do you not say Scott Helm (SH) http://www.britishcarweek.org/tr6.html
one of the most helpfull persons in keeping our cars alive.
His thrust washers have saved MANY a TR6 engine from going south before its time.

This is a very critical component to a TR6 engine. Unfortunately they are WAY too often over looked.

Scott has come up with a VERY GOOD replacement to OE stuff and will even give you what you want down to the .000 number to match your total end float with tollerance.

All I gotta say is thanks Scott.


Rick
Rick Crawford

er, read all the posts.
JT White

ER I did.

Sorry JT. You are correct, Don Kelly does say his full name.

You are the only person I have head of that is having problems with Scott's thrust washers. They HAVE been available for the past 10+ years.

I sure would not want fellow enthusiasts to get the impression that his thrust washers are junk.
Mine have been in my engine for over 10 years. I think it was way back in 2000 (over 10 years ago) that there was a good deal of discussion on this BBS about his washers and the importance of them (the thrust washers).

Rick
Rick Crawford

What I think JT's issue is with the material and not what Scott made these for.
His question, Scotts, was to get the TW's the correct size and not just throw a standard size, which was all you could get.

Forgotten here is it is also a help to pin that back TW and make sure it is getting adequate oiling.
Don Kelly

Yup, it is just a question of copper vs bronze (which is copper with tin)
JT White

I may be wrong here, but the issue is the failure of the bronze in a bearing surface already buggered up by the failure of the stock bearing. In that case the burrs/uneveness on the crank will shred the bronze bearing. A steel bearing may survive a bit, but will eventually fail as well. On your own, kiddo.
Brent B

Something that bothered me was the comment above regarding the appearance in JT's post from 19 January @ 20:14:08. There are many varieties of "bronze" and a bunch of differing means of delivering specific types of mechanical properties with all of those bronze materials. As a result, there is a wide variation in the appearance of the various bronze types and conditions.

So Scott, if you are out there lurking, what are specifying that they use material wise as far as specification callout, alloy, heat treat condition and such for the thrust washers?
SteveP1

This thread was discussed between 19/01/2012 and 31/01/2012

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