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Triumph TR6 - Transmission: how to fill it up

Greetings,
1.)Sub topic how to fill and with what:
Since the winter I've been trying to get my trans squared away. Drained and refilled my tranny early on and used motor oil 20w racing,she developed a slight grinding intermitently in the lower 3 gears. Sice the 1st time of drain and fill I have repeated the process 3 times 2nd time with 20w-50 Valvoline, I am now using a mixture of Castrol hypoy 75w-90 gear oil and Lucas HD oil additive roughly 25-30% Lucas. My biggest problem is there is still a grinding in the lower 3 gears it does not happen all the time it is truly intermittent. I have checked for crank walk and I do not find any evidence of that. Now how the heck do you get that last 1/2 pint of oil in there short of blasting it in under pressure I am ready for that also, is there some secret I should know ie: ass end of car higher than nose or the reverse or one side higher than the other I think my biggest problem is a lack of oil.
Best regards,
Keith
K.B.Dixon

Keith-I have found that cutting a hole in the tunnel opposite the filler plug makes life a lot easier (especially if the OD leaks). This make it possible to fill the trans from inside the car while it is level. Make the access hole the same size as the jack hole in the floor and order an extra plug. Also, replace the fill plug with a hex head or get an 8 point socket.
Berry

Isn't the proper "full" level for the tranny when the oil is right up to the fill hole? I usually fill mine while level and up to the point where I can stick my little pinky in and I feel the oil.

I put the Stalube 80-90W GL-4 in this last time to slow a tranny leak. Before that I had Redline 75-90W NS, which shifted better, but leaked more. I really should just dive in and also take care of my tranny issues, but it has been too nice to play with the car in the garage.
Ignatius

Berry,
My 72 has a replacement tunnel it came with a hole already cut in that area with a plug in it.(I noticed in the archives that you mentioned this before, and when I checked there it was no cutting involved). My hex nut is easy to remove I use a sae 1/2" socket or box wrench and it comes off.
Iggy,
The technique you describe for filling is the same that I have used previously. IE: fill until it comes back out and then seal. (level the car during this).

Question does the O/D require a separate fill? Or does it need to be used then re-fill the main box.
Every BB I use has different answers for type of fluid used for lube, it seems like whatever works. (the 20w and 20w-50 came from the archives and Don E. not sure if it was good for an all synchro box).
BTW my tranny has never thrown a huge amount of metal to its magnetic drain plug.
But i think I am not getting enough oil in the box.
Any advice gratefully accepted,
Keith
K.B.Dixon

Keith:
When I was putting my 74 w/OD together, I filled it with Sta-Lube 90 GL-4 as many others advised. the top cover was leaking so horribly, I thought the gaskets on either side of the adaptor plate for the OD were leaking. The fluid level had dropped nearly an inch in 1900 miles, and was starting to grind on the 3-4 shifts. I pulled the top cover, replaced the 3 shift rail o-rings, pulled the fill plug, and poured in the Sta-Lube til it ran out the fill plug hole. Leaks stopped, (no more burning gear oil smell at stop lights) and the shifting is smooth. Gearbox has 50K miles, nothing replaced but seals and a top gasket. The trans sat idle for 18 years, and I don't believe there was a loss of fluid to the OD when it finally had to go to work. There are small pumps available at parts stores to pump fluid in, and like Ignatius wrote, fill til it runs out & put the plug in. No separate fill for OD. Seriously weigh your options at using anything but a GL-4 hypoid oil. I highly recommend the Sta-Lube. Check the archives for the info about that. As far as synthetics, check this:

http://www.linkline.com/personal/koblinger/trsc/tech%20articles/translub.htm

Hope that helps....Rod
Rod Nichols

Keith-Sounds like you may have other issues with the trans,like worn synchros or replacements that aren't doing the job. My leaks are probably coming from the joints arond the adapter plate joints as the top cover o rings were replaced when the OD was installed. When I remove the trans, I will run it on a test stand like the one described on the Buckeye site.
Maybe a little off the subject, but when I first tuned into this board about 2 years ago, one of the problems being discussed concerned a person that was unable to remove a rounded-off trans fill plug. Instead of removing the tunnel and dealing with plug, he "solved" the problem by draining the trans and injecting oil through the drain plug opening. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
Berry

Berry,
Yeah that was one of the 1st articles I found also, I think that was where I saw your comment on the tunnel hole I was pleased to see myine had a whole already.
I don't have any leaking going on it just is concerning me that I have intermittent noise. My inability to fill it up is very frustrating, I can't imagine trying to do it from the bottom up. I have a couple of different ways to send it in under some pressure and I may try that if I can get a consistent measure in my reservoir.
Interested to see what other bbs'ers are using her for lube and fill techniques.
Regards,
Keith
K.B.Dixon

No we are at it, what technique can be used to fill the diff. The trick with the additonal hole in the cover on the gearbox is not possible. I tried to purchase a sqeezing bottle with a nozzle but could not find a suitable type.

Rod mentioned a little pump, do you have some more information on this device.

Erik
E. Creyghton

Erik,
I bought a pump from NAPA auto parts here in the US it inhales about a pint at a time and gives you the ability to push it back out. What I generally use is a length of tubing that is of the proper diameter to fit the opening on the gear-box and will extend upwards to the engine compartment. I cut the tip off my gear oil bottle insert it in the tube and generally poke a hole in the bottom of the bottle. I use the pump to try to get that last pt. in there. to no avail. Maybe you can access NAPA online and search their tools that way. I thought about doing the diff this winter but as I searched for the drain and fill area I got discouraged sorry I am no help in that regard.
Regards, Keith
K.B.Dixon

Erik I e-mailed you a link to the type of gun I use it should be available it is a mityvac #615 if the mail doesn't reach you. Available at harborfreight.com $19.99US under automotive sub.-autoshop.
Regards, Keith
K.B.Dixon

Eric-I think the pump Rod was referring to is made by Stalube and screws into the quart bottle of gear oil. They cost about $5. I attatched a length of tubing to the pump in order to fill the diff.
Berry

Any oil lube gun will do the job. Add some tube for whatever the aplication?

Suck it up shoot it out. Cheaper the better you will almost never use it.

Bill
Bill Brayford

From another list:

"I'm having my A type OD and tranny rebuilt by John Esposito at
Quantumechanics and found out the OD was abused with the use of 90W gear
oil. Seems the heavy weight gear oil puts a lot of strain on the annulus
and oil pump plunger, +$300 and $88 respectively. Can you say hurt me
baby!!!!! I'll have over $1600 on the rebuild, ouch, but that's the way the
OD crumbles! That does include a $200 conversion to steel bushings.
I guess the DPO (that doesn't stand for Dreaded previous owner, but.....)
figured that since most trannies recommend 90W, it was OK to use it in an OD
too. So if you have an OD tranny with 90W gear oil get that out of there.
John recommends Non detergent 30W, and mentioned that synthetics have a
tendency to seep."

I follow Esposito's recommendation.

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

Hi Rick

My question is my original BL manual not a reprint. Specifies EP90 for OD. Yep wrong firing order of plugs but the page in the back corrects:)

How much trouble have you had with it over the last ? 30 years? How often was it rebuilt?

Has it been? He should know once apart? Most machinests tag there repair work internaly? With a stamp.

Can you question John if he see's differences in older as specified lube and current products that make a difference?

Are the actuating devices inferior to original? No point in having a great engagement if the gears wear out?

Personally I have a problem with 30 viscosity dampering any high torque gear drive? At least for long term general use street purpose.

Actuating devices will gum and fail earlier of course with heavier if the oils aren't changed.

Getting old but willing to listen.

Bill



Bill Brayford

Bill--The quote is from another guy's problem child, not mine. Although I do have an Esposito A O/D running 30W ND. The ND is to minimize foaming. I only have 10K on it so far with no problems except for the floor spotting. I believe if you research the Laycock (not BL) specs you'll find 30W as the lube to use in the A O/D. Don't know the specs for the J.

I know there are at least 2 schools of thought about this. It's rare when you read a mechanics diagnosis pointing to 90W.

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

FYI
The Laycock manual says:
"The oil in the O/D is common with the gearbox. The oil to use is common mineral oil in the following grades:
Normal summer-- S.A.E.30
Normal winter-- S.A.E.20
Under no circumstances should extreme pressure gear oils be used, because the centrifugal effect of the planets may seperate some of the additives from the oil and cause sludging."

Rick C
Rick Crawford

Thanks for the Laycock words Rick. I wouldn't have guessed that sludging was the concern though.

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

Surprisingly, my local LBC expert says he often finds sludging in the OD. He infers that few people remove the large (drain/magnetic washer trap) plug beneath the OD. Mine was pretty bad before drain/clean/GM Syncro Lube.

Charlie
ECS Smith

ECS--Did you disassemble your OD to clean it? What is "GM synchro lube"? How is it used?

Thanks.

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

After I bought my '71 in April I started to work through the neglect of the PO. I searched the Internet sites for trans/OD (A-type) lube recommendations, where there are as many good opinions as there are choices. Long ago I was taught that all oil has 4 functions. It lubricates, cleans, cools & seals.

I wanted a high quality but lighter than average lube to help flush the trans/OD. I was also having difficulty finding trans lube that was NOT GL5. (The brass/bronze parts opinion makes sense.) I also spoke with knowlegable people and heard another opinion that simply makes sense to me. Motor Oil is designed for Motors! Gear Lube is made for Gears!

TRF sells GM Syncromesh Lube as a racing alternative. I was able to get it from a local GM dealer on a Saturday morning! It's kinda pricey, but two quarts were less than $20.

While draining the trans/OD I *carefully* removed the large (2-3 inch) plug that forms the sump of the OD. There I found several magnetic washers (instead of a single thick one) and a filter screen. Overall it did match up with the two volume TRF catalog.

After a thorough cleaning, I reassmbled the parts and replaced the large plug. (No, I didn't forget the small one either.) I filled the trans/OD with the GM lube using an inexpensive lube 'gun' and a small nylon right angle fitting from my local hardware store (1/4 inch push-fit to 1/2 inch tapered thread - I think).

I lost a little lube swapping the fitting for the fill plug, but had no trouble getting the trans/OD full (Almost 2 quarts)

In about 1,000 miles I'll repeat the procedure and put in Sta-Lube 80/90 GL4. My local NAPA guy can get it by the quart in one day.

I wish the differential was as easy. I've topped it off with modern GL 5. This winter I plan to go through the driveline from drive shaft to hubs. At that time I'll at least give the differential a drain plug and rebuild it (have it rebuilt?) if necessary.

A little windy, but informative (I hope).

Charlie

ECS Smith

Can someone explain the different type used to identify the Gear Lube. Where do GL2, GL4 and GL5 stand for? Indicates this the difference between syntactic and mineral oil or is it an abbreviation for the grade.

The manual advises SAE-90EP, this is what I use today. As far as I know this is a mineral oil. I have a J-type OD, should 90EP cause problems ?

Erik
E. Creyghton

ECS,
Is the GM syncromesh lube an alternative for daily use or more for racing applications. Very interested in your OD drain and clean as well I will check my TRF manual for illustrations. Thanks
Rick C.
Are you running 20 or 30 weight mineral oil in your 71 or something else.
Best regards Keith
K.B.Dixon

Rick:

The GM Syncromesh Oil is recommended by TRF for racing applications. GM recommends it for all new Corvettes with manual transmissions.

Keith:

I didn't see the viscosity rating but will look. Cold, it seems to have the consistency of 10W-30.

Erik:

The best discussion I found on GL ratings can be found at Buckeye Triumphs:
http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Gearbox/GearboxLubricant/GearboxLub.htm

Others:
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/lubricants-redline.html

http://sbcc.ca/tech/lube1.htm

From our archive:
http://www.british-cars.co.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=trbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=1009&subjectar=1009&thread=200304061449086712

Charlie
EC Smith

I checked for a viscosity rating on the guart containers for GM's Synchromesh Transmission Fluid. Couldn't find any SAE rating. It is pretty thin, probably 20-30 weight.

Charlie
EC Smith

Thanks for the viscosity range Charlie. More support for the early Laycock 30W lube recommendation for the A O/D. Hey, if it works for Corvette torque loads, it'll work for me.

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

This thread was discussed between 18/07/2003 and 25/08/2003

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