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Triumph TR6 - U-Joint Needle Bearing...not all the same

At the unwelcome risk of getting a reputation of Bu!@)@#_# subjects on this Board, here's an intersting bit of trivial. NOT ALL needle bearing are the same size!!! I've been puttering in the shop awaiting the tub from the painter (too damned slow) and have started replacing the U-joints. I started with the drive shaft. Had some problems, broke a needle bearing or two getting the cups in the yoke on one end!! Then dropped a cup, lost a couple of bearing that rolled God knows where so I simply put a couple from another cup in but could not get the cup back on the spline!!! I counted the bearings...28, opened another cup...28. Tried again and again (I'm a slow learner), No luck. It simply would not go, but a needle was clearly missing. Then applying a Steve Pike approach (no offense Steve), I established all the potential failure modes and conducted a modifed FEMCA. I dfinally concluded that one bearing had to be of a different size, but why?? Got one of the other new U-joints out and borrowed a bearing...fit perfectly, no issue with sliping back on the spline!! Whoa what gives...??? Got another new U-joint out and "borrowed" another needle...would not go@!!@ Counted the needles...only 25 this time. Removed the other cups and counted 25 in each cup. So friends and sports fans, we have two (at least two) sizes of needle bearings in our U-joint cups!! And they don't mix!!! I got mine from TRF where I buy most stuffm butg apparently they sent me products from two different manufacturers. If I can get my caliper calibrated well enough, I'll try to measure both to determine just how different they are...if anyone is interested.

BTW, I need one needle of the 28 per cup size!!
db
Doug Baker

Now HERE is a guy with too much spare time on his hands.

Rick

Rick Crawford

Doug, My other forum has had the same problem twice in the last week. Seems to be a new problem as those of us who haven't had to change recently did not have any problem.
Can you identify brands and needle #'s?

By the way for those who are interested. My heater is installed and running (65 degrees in the shop) and I am back at the 6. Now, has anyone seen my GM light switch? I spent 2 hours cleaning the shop looking for it and no go. Who ran off with my switch???
Don
DON KELLY

Doug-The size seems to vary among manufactuers. If you measure and post the size needed, I or someone may have an extra. I will bet that you aren't the only one that is a needle short of a full cup.
Berry Price
BTP Price

Berry, nice shot!
DON KELLY

Thank Barry...I expected that from Don or Rick:)
db
Doug Baker

Doug-I was speaking from my own experience. It seems like every ujoint job always causes 1 needle to get lost or broken and I have to buy an extra joint to complete the job, which is why I have a collection of extras.
Don-The switch probably melted from the heat in the shop. Actually, it is almost 60 deg. today, the sun is shining and the smell of freshly mowed dog crap will soon be in the air.
Berry
BTP Price

Found it,forgot I had installed it already in the middle of the heater and choke pulls. I thought I was going to install in the dash brace but now I remember I changed my mind.

Doug- Whats the verdict on the joint brands and sizes?
DON KELLY

Don,
Haven't measured yet!! Wife found the right one that I dropped so don't anyone take pity and send me one:)

I decided to sit back tonight and savor a wee dram of Glenmorangie while I contemplate whether my calipers will suffice or I need to borrow a micrometer. I'll let y'all know. Just remember...28 in one cup...25 in another...and the two don't mix very well!

Now if I can just get these suckers in the yoke!@$@@#
db
Doug Baker

That is exactly why we get married. To find things we either loose or can not remember where we put it.
Rick
Rick Crawford

OK sports fans...here's the info. The needle from the 28 cup measured .077" diameter and .390" length. The one from teh 25 needle cup measured .094" diameter and .405" in length!!

Checked the spindles w/o the cups and got 7mm for the 25 needle cup and 6.9 for the 28 needle cup. I'm still pondering what this means. I have not measured the cups to determine if there is some compensating offset there. I also have not identified the make/model/etc of each, but I'll do that and post later. Comments???
db
Doug Baker

Doug,
Here it is: (and I haven't had one of these for a long time, but this one is so easy) ;)
Joints make most folks mellow out....and we're glad you can take a little good hearted needling!
If you have any recent pix....send 'em along! Love to see how your car is coming along!
S'posed to be 50 and sunny this weekend in Boise....time to go for a drive!

happy moToRing!
Rod
Rod Nichols

Rod, this is what in my lexicon might be termed a Target Rich Environment:)

The manufacturer is GKN Automotive, Birmingham England. The product is called Hardy Spicer. All is the same EXCEPT a difference in what is identified as the MEE. For the 28 needle cup it's 1700040000730/0000730; for the 25 needle cup it's: 1911040000866/0000866.

Identified on the box as Origin in UK, but another notation on the bottom of the flap WHICH HAS BEEN MARKED THROUGH with a heavy black marker looks like JAPAN!!!!

I'll ask John Swauger at TRF what all this means!!
db
Doug Baker

Doug
All it takes is for the part to be shipped back to England (or any country for that matter) then put in a box made in that country and stamp the box "made in England".
Why the different sizes? Probably what could be supplied easier at that time.
Rick
Rick Crawford

Guys, There is a reason that you are finding different sized bearings. U-joints are not all created equal. Some are stronger than others. The bigger the trunion the stronger the joint. The outside diameter of the bearing cap remains the same so if the trunion size increases the bearing size has to shrink accordingly. This means that it requires more pins of a smaller diameter. The stronger joints normaly cost more. If you are getting the stronger U-Joints for the same price you are ahead of the game.
John Maneke

This thread was discussed between 12/02/2007 and 15/02/2007

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