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Triumph TR6 - voltage regulator replacement

1973 TR-6.... In trying to find out why my temperature gauge reads hi, I have been norrowing the facts. This last one leads me to replace the voltage regulator and the voltage stabilizer. When I ordered the regulator for a 1973 TR-6 through V.Brit. I received a regulator with four wires to connect .... the exisitng only has two! Any ideas? I have ordered the regulator for the 69 through 72 model, perhaps it has two. Anyone out htere has replaced the regulator?
Thanks
Abner

Abner
Unfortunately you have hit upon one of the most confusing parts of a 6. The alternator was one of the most changed parts of the car. The first thing I suggest you do is order from TRF the" spare parts catalogue" volume 1 and 2. You will see the alternator "selection" in Volume 2 PLATE DW.( if you have them great).
The 4 connector V Reg. is for a 16ACR alternator PI engine...and as you know none (PI engines) came to NA. But then who knows..Coventry could have put some 16ACRs on NA bound cars. Also, the 18ACR had 4 connections and was for NA cars after CF1 (1973). I presume you gave VB your commission number of CF1XXXX and they sent you what they know as correct for that car C/N. The 2 conductor V Reg. is for 17ACR alternators and was for commission numbers CC65347 to CF1 ( 1971 to 1972). Idealy you should go by the tag attached to the alternator but then it is probably missing or is for your original alternator.
Abner, what are your facts that lead you to think this replacement? The V Reg. would affect everything electrical on the car. A good indicator would be head lights or dash lights changing brightness. Put a volt meter on the output of the alternator and see if you have wild voltage fluctuations as engine RPM changes. The V Stabilizer affects both (and only) the temp and fuel gauge....does the fuel gauge read incorrect or fluctuate?
Let us know Abner.
PS My V Reg might have been changed when I had the Alternator rebuilt.
Rick C
Rick Crawford

Thanks Rick,
It originally started with the temperature gauge not reading right or reading hot.... I then changed all sender,thermostat and even gauge. Well after all that the gauge still reads on 3/4 + while driving. Last weekend on a ride I noticed that my gas gauge did not change a bit after the trip... well that lead me to beleive that there is a possibility of being the stabilizer and sice I had replaced it before I thought It might be getting smoked by the regulator not working right. So, all this in mind, I decided to replace both of them at the same time. (and hoped for a good result) Could these other two wires have been for an "option package"? Are they really needed? Could I just ignore them? I have ordered the older regulator and see how it is configured, but are they all not typical?
Thanks,
Abner
Abner

This may not help much, but my temperature & fuel gauges used to shift when the lights were turned on - until I found the voltage stabilizer was loose on the mount so not grounding well. Tightening it back up solved that problem.
Brent B

Abner
Answers "could these other two wires have been for an "option package"? I do not know...not likely though.
"Are they really needed? Could I just ignore them?" Yes and no.
"but are they all not typical?" apparently not...2 terminals and 4 terminals. The internal rectifiers are different for the 2 and 4 terminal V Reg.
Bottom line...I would use the 2 terminal V Reg. that you get.
Abner, what is the voltage from the alternator? Put your meter across the + and- of the battery when engine is running at idle and see what the V reading is..should be somwhere around 13+ volts. Increase the RPM to around 2000 and V should be STEADY at 14 to 14.5 V. Is it? Readings might be slightly lower if alternator is not at operating temerature.
Personally, I would take the alternator to a shop that can properly check it out and repair.
Good luck
Rick C
PS Brent, that is weird. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am very sure the case (and mounting screw) is not ground. The screw attachment is simply a means of holding the unit in place. Maybe you had a bad/dirty/loose connection to the V Stabilizer.
Rick Crawford

Rick,
I have to side with Brent on this, even though the schematics don't indicate a ground. I posted a few weeks ago that I was driving around without my speedo (while it was being rebuilt) and had the stabilizer kind of hanging. The temp guage showed I was overheating. After two hours of testing two thermostats, I realized it might be the stabilizer. I tried simply attaching a ground wire to the stabilizer and the reading returned to normal.

I'm not saying it should work, just saying it did. The only reason I checked it was because I knew I was driving with pieces missing , and that's when the 'overheating' began.

Just another piece of the puzzle, I guess.

Mark
Mark H

Rick - I can't offer any explaination other than cause & effect. I'm not an electrical type. The problem I referred to was fixed when I had the dash apart and found the stabilizer loose. That was at least 5 years ago, and I don't recall exactly where it was mounted, but might have been the speedometer. I may be thinking of my old MG, but isn't there a grounding pad on the back side of the housing? Pardon my laziness - I don't feel like looking for it tonight.

Good news is I got my head back, along with the distributor (modded by R. Good) that now has vacuum advance. I'll be back on the road by Saturday.
Brent B

Rick - I just checked the PDF wiring diagrams I have and the "gauge stabilizer" DOES show a ground on the '73 at least. I posted a link to the site that had the diagrams a month or so ago.
Brent B

Gauge voltage stabiliser is usually on the back of speedo? Case is ground.

Fuel and temperature gauge affected.

Most common problem bad ground between stabiliser and speedo case. And bad ground from speedo case to metal dash frame. Original most had an aluminum riveted double ground wire from the speedo case to metal dash frame. Just about all I have seen in the last years rivet has rotted off? I usually create a ground from one of the finger nut pods holding speedo in.

Solution loosen finger nuts. Tilt in holders. Slide speedo out. Clean all contact surfaces. Hit them with dielectric. Create speedo ground and reasemble.

Remembered to mention the dialectric this time Rick :)

Bill



Bill Brayford

Yes Thanks to Brent this Dan Masters sight has wiring specific to all of our cars. I try to keep track of Dan Masters but I missed this diamond.

Thanks again Brent heres the sight. Go to bottom.

http://www.britishv8.org/techhome.htm

Bill
Bill Brayford

This kind of reminds me of when I rewired mine. My diagram matches Rick's description, no reference to a ground like Dan Masters. Mine's in the Bentley book. But I remember now that my '71 had a few pieces of the '72 wiring, specifically the door/key switches and buzzer. I talked to TRF about it, and there were mid-year changes in some cases. So we may need to remember to check other model years.
Mark H

WOW, thanks guys!
I have been talking to mechanic......... it seems somewhere along the life of the car ... someone has replaced the alternator with the older model. Who knows why but the two wire regulator is typical for the 69 to 72 models. I have ordered the new part and will install soon. I'm still in doubt about the output becasue in the earlier models it was only 16ACR not the 18 that the 73 should have. We'll see, if nothing else I guess I will replace the whole alternator but should give this atry first.
Abner
Abner

Gentlrmen
I stand corrected and beg your forgivness.
Dan Masters schematic shows it grounded. My OFFICIAL Triumph (this is a joke) TR6 Manual (part # 545277 issue 1) shows no ground symbol. I have a spare VS and took it apart ( I had to see this with my own eyes). Sure enough, there is a small flat strip of metal that is attached to the female spade connection that wraps around the bakelite base and is crimped against the cover. This little strip is visible on the back side of the VS. My OFFICIAL schematics now have a ground symbol on them!
I am also going to do a print of Mr. Masters schematics.
Mark, I agree with you...my wiring is a cross between 71 and 72. I have 72 door/key switch/buzzer and also my horn is 72 with a relay.

I agree with TRF as to the change as I am using the original wiring harness and did not have to make any changes (other than loosing many much needed hairs while scratching my head wondering why the wiring was different from the schematic:)
Brent, Indeed, thanks for the link...I wish I had gone to it when you first said it...I would not have my tail between my legs right now:)
Dr. Bill, I knew you would not forget again:) So Bill could you offer up one of your cute comments about those Brit engineers?
UMMMMMM, Abner, sorry for having your thread altered slightly...found the problem yet? Maybe Brent has the solution along with Bills' suggestion.
Rick C
Rick Crawford

yes, the schematic does show a ground for the stabilizer but chouldnt it be grounded by the mere facto that it is attached to the spedo?
Abner

sorry, Rick
No problem for twisting the thread, we learn new things like that!
thank you
abner
Abner

Hi Abner,

Yes it will if the speedo case and tab is clean were it is attached and if the speedo case has a ground other than speedo cable which does sort of work? But not well.

Rick is talking about the component itself. There are different stabilisers depending on the manufacturer that got the contract that year with leyland. All work just may look a bit different case wise.

Thanks Rick no puns today. You just like to see me get flack from JohnD, Peter etc. etc. :)

Bill
Bill Brayford

Well guys, got the new (old style) voltage regulator with TWO wires, installed and also installed a new stabilizer. Started it but haven't been albe to test drive too watch the gauges enough due to mothers day, but will do a run as soon as I can.
Abner

For all of you that are curious..... test drove it after the new regulator and stabilizer,no changes were observed, still running hot, or so does the gauge tells me. As a matter of fact the new regulator must have been the wrong kind and totally discharged my battery (weird). Had to re-install the old one back and now the battery is good but still have the overheating problem. The next step is install a new gauge (aftermarket) under the dash with a completly separate sensor thus having two methods of checking, something just tells me that I'm not running hot. I also read the "overheating thread" from Brad, interesting.
Abner

This thread was discussed between 08/05/2003 and 20/05/2003

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