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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Ally rad
|With London a baking 30c yesterday it was a perfect time to test the aluminium radiator I bought from Pace Products to replace my old 'uprated' V8 rad. Reason for change was overheating when stationary (fans would only just hold temp at around 212c) but no problems once on the move.|
Tested in my garage, 34c air temp, zero natural airflow, the temp wouldn't exceed 190f with the fan on. A fairly tough test that I doubt would be repeated under normal conditions and a huge advance over my previous rads performance.
|David, could you give us the phone # for Pace? If yours is a standard V8 installation, presumably we could just say "gimme what you just sold to David" -- any objections to our doing so?|
|One thing I'm confused about. Can you just get a regular brass rad re-cored with an alu core?|
|Terry, mine was increased by 2 inches, 1 inch above the brackets, 1 inch below. The front to back width is now 80mm with a 65mm core. Fits into my chrome bumper conversion with about an inch gap to the front of the water pump. No objections to using these dimensions, I believe someone else was having a standard V8 made at the same time. These guys are really helpful, try their website for ideas but the best way is to call them.|
Bill, not sure about recoring a brass rad with an alu core. As I said to Terry, give these guys a call.
|Bill & Terry,|
You might want to check out a Griffin dragster aluminum radiator, #255135. This rad measures 17"w x 18 1/2"h x 3"thick. It is a crossflow rad w/top outlet driver's side, bottom passenger, 2 rows 1 1/4" tubes. That is the way I am setup w/pass side alternator. This radiator would almost duplicate the stock MGB dimensions if it were turned 90 degrees. I can see no reason not to do so & may change my alt to allow the change. According to Griffin this will cool 300 HP easily and no problem for street use. They recommended it over the # 225135 w/2 rows 1" tubes. Jeg's had 1 in stock @ $315 althogh it is supposed to be special order. It looks like it would certainly do the job but I am a ways from using it, still trying to build my 4.6
|Larry E. I used heavy gauge aluminum to make shrouds to go around the two stock fans. I aluminum strap was 1 ½” wide and was shaped like the Greek letter Ù (Omega). A full circle would have been too close to the fan at the bottom. These were placed flush against the radiator but not sealed to it and extended past the sides of the radiator as the stock fans do. The result was a small improvement in the amount of air flowing through the radiator with no air thrown outward, but most of the air moved by the fans took the easy route along side the radiator. The radiator mounted aftermarket fan I use now works much better.|
Wouldn’t a fan blade upgrade to the stock fan motors be nice?
|The Greek letter Omega looked correct before I submitted it, so don't go by what's above that looks like a "U".|
|David, with the top of the rad one inch higher than stock, how do you close the hood? Does it clear??? Are you using an MGC hood or something? |
Also, I am thinking that it should be easily possible to go a couple of inches lower at the bottom ... unless that'd not be helpful to cooling.
|Terry, you're right about the close fit. Every time I look at the rad I can't believe that the bonnet will shut without hitting it. There's about 0.5 inch gap between the rad top and the bonnet. The rad top is 3.375 inch above the bonnet closure panel which does look odd. It hangs about 0.5 inch below the front valance so isn't really noticeable from outside|
Dimensions are: height 20 inch, width 18.5 inch, depth 3.25 inch. Core height 16 inch. Top and bottom tanks are squared off, each being 2 inches high. Rad volume is 4.5 litres vs 3 litres previously.
|Just one question, if I can get an ally rad made to my own spec for £300 approx, why does it cost £550 through the owners club?|
|PACE made an ally rad for me. It seems to make a lot of diffrence - although because of the squared off top and bottom tanks there is a greater volume of water and so it is not possible to say how much of the effect is because of the aluminium and how much is because of extra coolant.|
Terry, New Orleans - Don't just ask for the same as David. He had a larger rad made and I can tell you that his one wouldn't fit in my car. Also, oversize rads may restrict your options for any lowering of the car. PACE measured my car for my rad and we decided that the stock size was the biggest that would fit. By a series of accidents PACE ended up making me a rad about 1/2" too big. The result is that I have had to mount it further into the bay, very close to the water pump and yet still one forward top corner of the rad has fouled the bonnet producing a small dent/pimple at one point. I am probably going to ask PACE to make another correctly sized one. They seemm to be a decent company and I don't anticipate any problems.
I think that you should always have your car measured whenever you are considering fitting an outsize rad. I think that a good move would be to have the top tank built so that it slopes away a bit at the front. In other words, the rad might be 18 1/2" (stock depth) engine side and only 18" at the front or 19:18 or whatever fits. This will probably be more expensive but not by much.
Also when measuring consider if you reckon you might want to lower the front of your car in the future. My bottom hose is about .25" from the anti-roll bar.
|Marc, terrific heads-up, but don't worry about a rad that goes lower having the lower hose foul the sway bar ... I am looking into exactly this (i.e., having my factory V8 rad modded to produce a 3" greater depth), and you have merely to run it so that the lower hose fitting comes up below the sway bar; then the hose goes below and behind it, and you simply cut the hose where it has made that first 90-degree bend and insert a 3" length of stainless steel pipe, which passes vertically behind the bar. A long time ago when we were talking about steering racks someone posted a pic which made this arrangement clear to me and that was one of the things that triggered it. I reckon I will stay with a brass rad and see what an uprated core will do, only because I've heard that (i) you can't mount electric fans on them that easily, b/c alu cores can't deal with those zip tie thingies, and (ii) alu rads at least in this country seem to have a very poor reputation for longevity.|
I recored my brass rad and it did make an improvement, but still runs slightly warm in a UK heatwave, but I agree that there is plenty of room for greater depth at least to crossmember and this would be airflow. There is also a place in UK that does made to measure hoses.
Good question David, Tim at Frontline should be selling Ally rads soon - so his price will be interesting.
I agree that the rad could be enlarged so that the bottom pipe comes out under the anti-roll bar and I did consider this. I decided against as the front of my car is so low that I reckoned that there would be a too great a chance of the bottom tank hitting something on a bumpy road. My valance is already a bit battle scarred and I saw no reason to expose my self to rather more srious and expensive risks. Maybe I have overcooked the lowering of the front end but the car does seem to handle not too badly.
The problem with going under the anti-roll bar is that you either extend the bottom tank about 3" or not at all. There is no extra 1" or 1.5" available. The only other way is to play around with the anti-roll bar mounting blocks but then (on my car, anyway) this means the risk of fouling the wheel rims on full lock.
|"the rad could be enlarged so that the bottom pipe comes out under the anti-roll bar"|
The factory V8 does this anyway.
|Paul, you're right but would anyone say that the factory V8 handling was the best which could be achieved or could it be improved by various dabbling including lowering of the suspension?|
I thought my car was low at 13ins from wheelcentre to bottom chrome strip, but no damage to valance yet.
Combining Larry (VA)'s mod, perhaps doubling as skid pan to lowered rad and smoothing out under chassis aerodynamics, may be a winner all round.
|Marc - I think you misunderstand. Even with the bottom of the factory V8 rad low enough to require the bottom hose to be routed under the anti-rollbar the rad is still not as low as the valance or other components. If you were low enough - or ran over something high enough - to damage the rad you would have several other things to worry about first.|
|Well, maybe I'm just don't have the bottle, but my chrome strip is also 13" from wheel centre - (Paul W) and the bottom of the rad is 9" from the ground - (Paul H). 3" longer on the rad puts it at 6" from the ground. My overheating problem is now pretty well under control and I don't need to take the risk.|
What I'd really like to do is to lower the engine bay temperature and I suppose that it will mean one day routing the exhaust out under the wings RV8 style.
Andy Robinson is agent for Camcoat (ceramic coating none of downside like exhaust wrap, as far as I know) £180 for V8 and should lower under bonnet temp. When time and circumstances permit I will investigate further.
This thread was discussed between 30/07/2001 and 08/08/2001
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