MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Costello Transmission

re: NC
Posted 09 August 2006 at 16:19:32 UK time
Rick,
I assume from your post you still have not heard anything back from Ken. I have been giving some thought to a 5 speed conversion but was thinking if this was going to be available anytime soon I might wait it out.

*****************************************************

Greetings!

I talked with Ken tonight (September 11, 2006). He s working with a firm in Tennessee to produce his long awaited gearbox.

This gearbox has a case specific to itself...the internals are upgraded from his previous transmissions.

The wheels are turning on this project..but it still may take some time to see it on the marketplace.

Cheers!

rick
rick ingram

Rick,

Do you know who the Tennessee company is or where they are located?

Being a Tennessean, I'm very curious.
Dan Masters

Dan...I'll try to find out...rick
rick ingram

Rick,
Thanks for the follow-up. May still wait this out. I had originally thought a new transmission might be my winter project but with three kids tuitions to pay this year all new projects are on the backburner so if you get any more info would love to hear it.
Frank

Dan,

I heard thru a local club member that sells Jag 5 & 6 Speed conversions that Ken had met with Keisler Engineering. They are located somewhere near Knoxville. They specialize in custom designed Tremec 5 & 6 speed conversions.
Carl Floyd

Carl,

I suspected it might be Keisler. They are just a few miles from my house. They have really grown since they first moved here a few years ago.
Dan Masters

The 'world class' Tremec 5 speed from Ford Motorsports is a little more than thousand dollars US and fits into the tunnel, why would you want anything else? Not a rant just a question.
Boyce

That is a question that I asked my local club member that was gauging interest for the Costello trans. The T-5 is not the slickest shifting tranny around. In fact, I think it is terrible. Anyone know any tranny tricks?

Keisler specializes in the Tremec TKO, a much stronger version of the T-5 than we use (more expensive, too).

With Ken's racing background, I expect it will be a strong, smooth shifting, made to fit our application (hopefully at a reasonable price) transmission. I need one. I am not a T-5 fan.
Carl Floyd

My T5 works okay... and I'll never break it, but I agree it isn't smooth shifting. If one were racing, that could translate to a couple seconds a lap. When you're between gears you're not accelerating. When I first installed my T5, a friend timed me as I shifted back and forth between gears. Compared, for example, to the Honda five speed we benchmarked the T5 took longer for an average throw of the lever. It certainly took more muscle. Factors like friction in the linkage may affect this, as well as lever length.

Lighter weight would be a worthy goal.

I expect cost will be the problem. T5's are economical.
Curtis

Carl, you need a Toyota gearbox. That will solve all your problems
Barrie Egerton

Barrie,

I agree, a Supra box would be dream compared to a T-5.
Carl Floyd

The engine is currently out of my B, so maybe it's time to hunt around for a W58 supra transmission!
Justin

Which year Supra boxes are the best?
Michael Willis

Should be enough info to make things work.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/9975/dataBySubject/Gearboxes.html

http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/tech-articles/4740-engine-swap-bellhousings.html
Justin


http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/html/motorsportparts.htm
Bellhousings
Morgan, Rover, P76 are the MGBV8 ones. About $400 Australian for the bell housing, then about another 400 worth of optional, you can get them elswhere, bits
Peter

My day for making typo's

Try again

http://www.dellowauto.com.au/main.html
Peter

Pic of a Supra W58 bellhousing for the Rover V8

http://i13.ebayimg.com/03/i/08/49/eb/67_1.JPG

Greg
Greg

Basically (and correct me someone if I'm wrong) but the bolt pattern on the supra w58 box is the same as a jeep AX5 transmission, so if you get the bellhousing that connects that jeep transmission to the 215 bolt pattern you should be able to make this work pretty easily.

(Or just save the trouble and buy the bellhousing from dellow) ;-)

Justin

Wow, lots of great info! Somebody should put together an article for Curtis & the British V8 E-Newsletter.

For those that rather not have to buy another bellhousing, here's the solution:

http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/attachments/tech-articles/2923d1101491462-engine-swap-bellhousings-215_r154_32.jpg

Here's a tinyurl in case the long one is a mess:

http://tinyurl.com/nmpan

"Pic 2 is of the "strange but true" variety. Using the Novak AX15 to GM bellhousing adapter, one can hook up the Toyota R154 Supra Turbo tranny (or any 96 and later "R" series with the longer input shaft) up to a stock 61-63 Buick 215 V8 bell. This set up will work behind any Rover V8 in a Land Rover, Range Rover, Discovery or Triumph TR8."


Great find, Justin!
Carl Floyd

The R154 trans has a different pattern than the W series trans. The R154 trans is the getrag 6 speed box that was used in the twin turbo supras from the early-mid 90's. You'll pay $2500 for one of those boxes!

I know the answer is in here, I just have to connect part A to part b. Wek need an adapter from a AX5 to a GM bellhousing. With that, the only question left is input shaft length, but you can buy spacers to make that work...

Justin


Quote: "Somebody should put together an article for Curtis & the British V8 E-Newsletter."

I agree completely!

Contact info appears here: http://www.britishv8.org/British-V8-Contact-Info.htm
Curtis

The W58 was in the non-turbo Supra & Celicas. The R154 was used in the single turbo Supras. Sounds like a stronger version of W58. Not sure if the dimensions or gear ratios work for MGBs, though.

MK IV Supras had the 6 speed Getrag that you refer to.

Check this site:

http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh110/supra_in_volvo.htm

Snippets: Apparently the early model Supra boxes used gaskets inbetween the sections, and later model boxes nil. The late W58 boxes (USA/Can) have a revised input shaft and bearing -> the diameters increased.
Nikolai says : W58 in the USA is pretty common and came in a lot of the early to mid 80's Celicas with 4 cylinder (rear wheel drive) and all the 6 cylinder Supra's except the turbos. On a few rare occurances, it also came in the '84 through '87 Cressida's. From 1985.5 through 93(?) Supra, the W58 came in the N/A car. The R154 came in the Turbo Supra and uses the same bellhousing and bolt pattern, but it had lower ratios, short throw, and was a little beefier.
Kris Weldy writes: The w58 is shorter (maybe an inch or so) and has a sensor directly on top of the trany that the r154 does not. The r154 is a bit larger in diameter right before the shifter. Both trannies have hydraulic clutches but both setups are different, it appears that the w58 pushes from the front and the r154 pushes from the back-both having different slave cylinders. The r154 has a cylinder type slave (two bolts)cylinder and the w58 has a four bolt slave cylinder . So there are a few subdle differences.
V70R740T writes: A mod recommended by lots of W58 users out there was to change out the input bearing for a "maxi" bearing. basically a HD bearing that uses twice the number of ball bearings as the standard W58 bearing which more evenly distributes side loads.

Supra 6 speed - People ask if the 6 speed manual gearbox found in 1993-98 Supra twin turbo - type V160 - would fit the same Dellow belhousing as the 5-speed unit ? Unfortunately NO. I have found out that this gearbox is actually a German Getrag 6 speed, that uses a completely different attachment pattern compared to the 5-speed Supra box.
Carl Floyd

Online tranny maunual for teh W58 & R154:

http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/mt/MT_01.html
Carl Floyd

Justin, there is no stock Jeep bellhousing to bolt the AX5 to a Rover V8 (Buick 215). The bellhousing in the photo is an aftermarket Aussie one.

Carl, I actually submitted in an early version of that Jeep article to the Newsletter some years ago. Didn't go anywhere though.

Greg
Greg

I'm not interested in a bell housing, I want an adapter to go from the front of the AX5 transmission to the back of the Buick 215 Bellhousing. (Pattern for a T5 transmission).

Get me that and I can do the rest.
Justin

Justin, You seem to me a guy than can do anything, how old are you? i have a 19 year old in my shop like that.He knows it all, can do it all.
Romney

Romney,

Engine & tranny swaps are not for the faint-hearted. This whole group is comprised of "can-doers".
Carl Floyd

I'm 27, and not afraid to try things that are hard. Here's a link to the hammock I built this summer:

http://www.broome.us/justin/?p=17

20' arc length, 16' cord length, approximately 6' tall and the legs are 5'6" wide. The main arc is a 5.5" wide and 6" thick laminar beam. Deflection is estimated at about 1/16" and it weighs around 200 lbs.

I couldn't find plans to build one of those, so me and my roommate designed it outselves.

Back on track: The parts are out there, it's just a matter of mating them together. I'm confident that once someone does it and puts together a list of parts that work well together, others will jump on board and use the supra trans behind our conversions.

They shift sooooooo smooth!
Justin

Justin, why an AX5? They aren't known for longevity even behind a 2.5L Jeep engine.

Greg
Greg

same bolt pattern on the front of the case as the supra W58 trans.
Justin

If you want to hook the W58 to a rover V8, this is no adapter I know of to do that. The only way I know to do that is with the Australian bellhousings.

Greg
Greg

why not just install the toyota v8 aussie motor with the 6 speed box already attached to it? maybe more cost effective than a one off?
james madson

Justin,

I'm with you!
The're just bolt patterns at the end of the day.
Just need to be accurately measured and drilled (or risk damage to bearings & clutch).
What do the fitters, toolmakers and metrology experts out there have to say?
Regards,
Dom
Dom

The W58 would be a good choice behind a Buick/Rover. Probably marginal with 302. Novak is not going to make the adapter because they specialize in Jeeps and they don't think much of the AX5. They do make an adapter for the AX15 which means the R154 can be bolted right to our Buick bellhousings. The R154 Supra trans is much stronger than the W58, but it is quite a bit heavier, as well.

My issue is with the gear ratios. I don't want nor need a 3.28 1st gear. I would have to change the stock rear end ratio for sure. With our light cars the 2.95 1st gear in my T-5 is fine. The other issue is that Novak adapter is $300. Might as well spring for the Dellow bellhousing. Anyway, I already have 2 T-5s.

Anyone have any T-5 slick-shifting tricks? :)
Carl Floyd

I think Carl has the right idea Justin. Anyway, if your heart is REALLY set on trying this, there may be a backhanded way to adapting a W58 to a Buick 215 bellhousing now that I've thought a bit about it. There is an adapter available from OTT Industries that adapts a GM SM465 transmission to a Toyota W series bellhousing.

http://www.ottindustries.com/22re-sm.htm

The SM465 has the standard GM 4 speed pattern. As a long shot, you may be able to have them bevel the bolt holes on the opposite sides and cut some relief in the front bearing area of the adapter. That may work to bolt the W58 up to a Buick 215 4 speed bell. Of course, you'll have to take into account the 6.5" input shaft length of the W58 so the thickness of the adapter would be a factor. Long shot, but, asking a question doesn't cost anything.

Greg

Greg

Here we go again on the Toyota transmissions! I have a W58 in my garage that I had big plans for. It just didn't work out. I ended up with an almost new t5 for less than $300, and I just couldn't justify the extra $$'s to try to make the W58 work. The R154 is also a 5 speed, it's just completely different than the W58. I've corresponded with Greg on this issue before, he definitely has the market cornered on which engines/bellhousing/transmissions will bolt up. I don't know where he comes up with all this info!

For the record, I believe that Advance Adapters has an adapter plate that connects the Ford 302 to a Jeep AX-15 bellhousing, which will in turn bolt up to the R154 transmission. Greg? Do I have it straight!?! The other consideration is the input shaft lenght, I think Greg pointed out previously that the AX family of transmission had longer (or was it shorter) input shafts that the W family. Okay, now my head hurts.
Ryan Reis

W58 vs R154 Gearbox Specs pics:

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/gearboxes2.html
Carl Floyd

This thread was discussed between 12/09/2006 and 19/09/2006

MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical BBS now