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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Ford clutch cable
|Have any of you with ford conversions used or considered using a cable operated clutch instead of the hydraulic setup? Looking at various information on the web, it looks like it might be something I could fabricate. You can buy an aftermarket clutch cable, quadrant (mounts on pedal) and adjustment piece for under $50 on ebay. Heck of lot more affordable than the htob that people seem to have trouble with. Appreciate any thoughts or advice.|
|I've seen a cable clutch on one of the old 2.8 Ford V6 installations. Didn't look that close at the pedal, but it didn't seem to present any issues|
I think you'll find that transmission tunnel space becomes an issue with the pull type clutch cable approach - do a lot of careful research and measuring before you commit to this method.
I went with the push-type clutch slave cylinder approach after getting some valuable design direction from Gil Price and Dale Spooner. It has performed admirably - has less pedal effort than the HTOB, is a lot less $ and is accessible if there is an issue.
|I was just goingto mention tunnel space. It is fairly tight right in that location on the tunnel. and the Stock Mustang Arm sticks out a bit.|
Probably the best solution is a hydraulic set-up that a company does for the Early mustangs. It is a push type slave Cyle that mounts to the side of the trans and pushes the arm forward. IT was much cheaper than the HTOB also and alows for outside adjustment.
If I had known about that originally it is what I would have done...
|Thanks for the advice guys. I was doing some measuring last night and I think it might work. However, it will be little more difficult than I thought to mount the quadrant on the pedal. My second plan is to use the setup that Dale Spooner detailed in the newsletter. |
|Hey Ryan I thought you were using the toyota supra trans?|
Hey, someone around here is paying attention! The problem is, about a year and a half ago I changed jobs and had our first child. Ever since then I spend much more time thinking about this project than I do working on it. And boy do I change my mind a lot!
I have a completely worn out wc t5 that I've used as a mock up to build mounts, and that's why I'm kinda headed that direction. I'd still love to use the Supra tranny, but right now all I have is a w-58 out of a Celica. The other consideration is that I'm using ford efi and the vss hookup is pretty simple on the t5. I'd have to rig something else up if I use a toyota.
Trust me, I'll probably change my mind again in a couple months. By the time I get this project done they might have outlawed fossil fuels.
|re: By the time I get this project done they might have outlawed fossil fuels.|
Join the club! I'm beginning to think that by the time I get my conversion done, I will be a fossil!
|I'll bet that Supra tranny would shift sooo much nicer than a T-5. Heck, my stock MGB tranny shifted better than the T-5.|
|Darn it, see how this happens? Now I'm thinking about the Supra tranny again. I have to go to Omaha this weekend, maybe I'll stop at the u-pick it and see if there are any Supras around. My wife will be happy, she really enjoys the parking lot at the junk yard.|
Using the Supra tranny requires a Jeep AX15 bellhousing and an adapter plate from Advance Adapters. The plate weighs 18 pounds and costs $273.20. It would be kinda neat to try something different.
|Why do you need one from a Supra? W58 is W58. I don't think there's any difference. (If there were, it would no longer be a W58 model!)|
The bellhousing from a Jeep AX15 bolts right on to a r154 tranny from the 87-92 supra, and Advance Adapters makes the adapter plate from AX15 to small block ford. The AX15 bellhousing won't bolt on to a w58 (from what I've been told). There are bellhousings available to mate the sbf and w58, but as far as I know they're only available from "down under" and the price is out of my league. I'd love to just use the w58, all reports are that it's a great unit.
You're right, I shouldn't just refer to a "supra transmission", they used both the w58 and the r154.
|I'm really thinking I want to switch to the Supra trans this winter. There are two ways to do it.|
1) Get a bellhousing from dellow in Austrailia that bolts the W58 trans to the rover v8/bop 215 block.
2) use the supra R154 trans (87-92 turbo supra's)and an adapter to connect it to a BOP 215 bellhousing. (This is a proven method)
Some say that the W58 is a smoother box than the R154. BUT, the R154 can handle over 600 lb-ft of torque. Every manual toyota I've driven has shifted smooth as silk, and the R154 is a short throw tranny, so I'm betting it still shifts super smooth. I'm looking for an adapter to mate a W58 to the BOP 215 bell housing. The major concern is the input shaft is rather short on the W58 (6.5") so I'm not 100% sure that conversion can work. I'm still researching it though.
Here's a link for a state side connection to link a W58 to a Ford 5.0: http://www.northwestoffroad.com/parts/manualadapters.html
End analysis: there are roughly 8 million options, and I don't think any state side MG owners have done any of them yet. =) Maybe I'll be the first to mate a supra trans to a rover block on this side of the pond.
If I do this, I'll have a rover bellhousing, 5 speed trans, drive shaft, clutch slave, and fork for sale. That would make for an awfully easy swap for someone wanting a rover trans. =)
I cant believe you dont find the T5 way superior to the regular MG tranny --in my mind no camparison .
Maye the GM one is different from the Ford--but mine is super smooth and very direct and postive when shifting.
Just my 2 cents
|If you drove a supra you would think your T5 is a pig. I've driven regular MG 4 speeds, Rover 5 speeds, Ford T5's, GM T5's, Honda 4 and 5 speeds, Dodge Viper 6 speeds (the one behind the 500hp GTS-R viper), Toyota Celica FWD 5 speeds and Supra RWD 5 speeds. The Supra is in a class of it's own. I couldn't believe how incredible it felt. |
Toyota has transmissions all figured out, and they're awesome!
You're right about the w58 having a short input shaft. I was hoping my Dad would be able to machine an adapter to hook it to the ford bellhousing, but the input is just too short. Too bad you can't make an "input extender". I also thought about an adapter plate to hook the toyota bellhousing to the ford block, but the diameter of the toyota bell is too small to fit around the ford clutch.
What do you think about my vss issue? Is there any Toyota vss sender that could be used with the w58? I know some people swap for efi engines and leave the vss off, but I've heard it causes stalling on deceleration. Don't want that.
I hate vendors that don't list their prices on their websites. I guess I need to call Northwest Offroad and get a price on their kit.
It's fine for tooling around, but when the V8 boys start playing hard I'm not at all happy with the T-5. I hope to some day get to do a track day at VIR and visit Dale. Heard from him lately?
|Well, I just noticed the Northwest Offroad kit for the supra tranny requires a 164 tooth flywheel. To get that flywheel in 50oz imbalance for my '94 5.0 looks like $300 minimum. So that doesn't sound so good. |
|Why can't you attach an aftermarket VSS to the speedo cable? My electric speedo is controlled by a GM hall effect sensor. I modified the LT77 Trans speedo cable to have an end on it that matches the GM sensor, and all is well. When you use the Rover vehicle speed sensor it has male threads on both ends and a "box" in the middle. One end is connected to the speedo cable coming from the gearbox, and the other end goes up to the speedo, and it siphons the electrical pulses from the box in the middle of the line. I'm sure you could do something similar. |
The 164 tooth flywheel is from post '82 trucks. F250's broncos, and I think some vans. I did a search on car-part.com and found zillions of them.
This is all very feasible, just have to be willing to do a little extra work. =)
|Oh, I'm willing to do the extra work! I thought the 164 tooth flywheels you refer to were 28 oz imbalance? I need a 50 oz imbalance, can you convert it? Maybe I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time (or the second).|
|Ford switched to the 50 oz balance in approx 1981 (if I'm not mistaken).|
While the Fbody guys and mustang guys may kill trannies, it needs to be taken into account the fact that they usually do it powershifting with a car tha is 1000-1400lbs heavier than our cars with LOTS of HP and LOTS of traction.
Those issues all add up to allot of stress on a trans. I find it hard to believe that a Supra trans will hold up to that same punishment.
Best bet if people want to thrash on a manual trans is to get a tremec and not ever worry about it again. Spendy but worth it...
I havent heard a word from Dale since he moved in July--I must contact him see how things are . Im hoping to get to V8 meet in TN so will see you all next June--best regards --Gil
I'll take your word for it on the trannies --Ijust wont follow your directions to the park !!!
I just want a smoother, slicker shifting tranny when I play road racer. ;)
I sent Dale an email awhile back, but haven't heard from him. I'm he's covered up trying to get settled in.
I'm sure he's covered up trying to get settled in. I can't imagine trying to move an entire machine shop that far.
|Looked at the ratios on the W-58- don't like them at all. The R-154 or v-160 look alot better, in my opinion|
|The V-160 is actually a getrag 6 speed and is MAD expensive. Quick search pulls up $2695.00 + $500 core.|
|Guess that sw why T5 is so popular !!|
I agree --couldnt think of a bigger nightmare than moving his whole machine shop.I dont have a phone number --will see what I can find out
This thread was discussed between 27/09/2005 and 04/10/2005
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