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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Ford injection on a rover v8
|A couple months ago this came up, and no one ever came to any conclusions. I've seriously thought about putting a ford injection system on top of a rover. I'd take the rover plenum, and chop off the inlet, and weld the inlet from a ford 302 manifold on, so I can attach the ford throttle body and all of it's associated gear. I would still have to look at the water temp sensor, but I could probably tap the rover hole to accomodate it. MAF wouldn't be a problem, and I'd modify a ford harness to fit in my car, and use the crank fire system. I'd have the ford crank fire wheel attached to my front pulley, and put the sensor up there. I'd cut off the top of my dizzy and cap it, so that would still run the oil pump, and I would run the multiple coil setup, probably 2 per side, right over the valve covers, but I'm not sure yet. For the computer, I would use the a9L, and a tweecer so I could modify it for the size of the motor, and also for the different firing order. I think this would give me GREAT control of the motor, and a system that is easily upgradeable, and repairable on the road.|
I am also looking at FI options. There is a system called Mega Squirt that you build yourself. It currently can be used with the Ford EDIS coil packs. A newer version is in the works that will have a faster CPU and coil packs as well. The present system can be ordered for around $120, or assembled for about $200 I believe. The software is free from the site as well. You would still need to make up a harness though. Have a look at
|I've got the ford system on my 215 and it's a good option. I'm using the '95 Mustang GT processor (T4M0 I believe), tweecer, and EDIS. It is almost too tuneable. If you don't mind the work of getting all the pieces in place it is a great engine management system, however the wiring can be a bit of a mess. I whacked off an old distributor, o-ringed the housing, and capped it with a 1" copper pipe cap, but later went back and added a lug to the top of the shaft and brazed a brass block to the cap so I could mount the cylinder ID sensor to it. Not absolutely necessary, but it helps keep things in synch. I welded the tooth wheel to the back of the damper, used the 4 post coil packs (Crown Vic) and mounted the right one on the frame rail and the left one in the opening just forward of the brake pedal assembly. I also have a MegaSquirt kit but it will go on the truck. It is a speed/density system so quite different in operation. I don't expect to have that system up and running for a good while yet, maybe next summer sometime, although the injector intake goes on in the next week or so.|
Last time I visited the tweecer bb there still wasn't a lot of experimentation with the EDIS and older processors so whether you could properly control it with the A9L (or even the T4M0 for that matter) was an open question, the point raised being that the ign could be running in default mode rather than accepting the timing signal. I never did verify that as the engine was running well as it was, but it is a question you should get an answer to first. The rev limiter settings worked just fine though. Other than that, I see no reason not to go that way. It seems reasonably easy and the parts are available. You could probably even use the Rover injectors if you wanted. My hybrid uses a Rover fuel rail, Ford regulator, pump, injectors, etc. on a modified Offenhouser intake.
I think you'll like it Justin. But you'll have to spend some time on the tweecer board learning to use it and that part doesn't come real easy since there still isn't any sort of user's guide. It's a good board though, but not as good as this one.
|A lot of the factory five racing guys (replica shelby cobras) are starting to get into them, as ways to boost their power outputs. That's what is really prompting me to check the option out. I'm hearing stories of guys who are spending sometime on the dyno with a laptop in the car and picking up around 40 hp just by getting all the bugs worked out. That's pretty phoenomenal. I realize part of that horsepower increase is just to the larger capacity of their motors, but the rover injection system is SO inadequate as it stands, so maybe I can see those kinds of gains too.|
I really think I'm gonna go ahead with this.
p.s. With the tweecer, I could easily put a vortech s-trim blower on my motor, and just add some bigger injectors and be off to the races!
|Yes you could. And to start with you might not even need the bigger injectors. I cannibalized a Crown Vic for my system then added the Mustang processor to get tuning functionality with the tweecer as the L2W was still unsupported at that time (that may have changed, as I sent the C-V processor to Mike) The C-V system for the 4.6L Ford is supposed to handle a 300 hp power output with no changes, and the Mustang uses an even larger MAF. So whatever 19lb injectors will support would be your limitation. Figure that out, and how much your added boost will require, and you're practically there. Maybe a little remapping here and there, but one of the really interesting things about the EEC-IV is it's ability to learn. So all you really have to do is get in the ballpark. Of course it's set to optimize for cat conversion, but you can change those parameters if you like also. But don't ask me how, I've not done that yet.|
What were you talking about with the cylinder id sensor? I'm not familiar with those. Secondly, any suggestions on the plenum mod? I figured I would find someone with a tig welder and see what they couldn't help me do. The sn95 mustangs seem to have a curved neck that the throttle body attached to, and I think that might be my best option to weld to the rover plenum. What do you think?
p.s. was the a9l computer used with a distributorless system, or would I have to look for the sn95 injection stuff?
Yes the 94/95 cars have the curved upper intake. They also take a special TB, so keep that in mind if you get a earlier ECU. Just means you will have to splic on a new connector, signalling is the same for the TB's. Jim is the ONLY person I have been able to find that has ever gotten DIS/EDIS on a ECU not specifically designed to do it. Ford did not even know if it was possible when I talked to them. #19lb injectors are good to about 300hp tops in a 5.0, might be a bit different with the rover.
I have a twEECer for my various cars. (Have two 5.0's and a 5.8L in planning) It is a VERY strong unit with great support. Heck I was able to get a 4.6L ECU to run my 5.0, it ran like warm doggy poo, but it ran which quite a feat. Now I need to customize the new 5.0 harness so I can use the proper ECU and finally run the car with EFI on it!
|Thanks for the info Larry, I was hoping you would chime in. ;-) Did a mustang ever run the distributorless system, or am I going to have to source parts from another ford product?|
|Larry will be a lot of help on this one Justin, as he's played more mix-n-match than he owns up to. Anyway, the CID sensor is typically mounted to pick up a bump on the cam gear, thereby identifying piston #1. If the sensor is absent the edis fires coil pack 1/5 as usual but fires injector 1 during initial crank and if the engine doesn't start right up fires #1 again on the next crank rotation. (I -think-. Probst says #5 but that does not seem logical, perhaps he means it skips a rotation and fires #5) When the engine does fire off it designates that as #1 and runs that way. So it will run without it, since fuel is getting into the cylinder regardless, but with it you are sure of getting the injector pulse during the intake stroke where it might otherwise be during the power stroke. So I added one. I can send you a photo of it, Larry also has the photo.|
I guess since nobody else has reported retrofitting the EDIS (Although I did see one magazine article about it where they did it successfully and raved about it) I really should put the timing light on mine before I tear it down and confirm that the T4M0 processor does control timing correctly. I highly suspect that it does. The T4M0 or '95 GT Mustang, also referred to as the SN95, was a year behind the Crown Vic L2W, and intermediate between the 5.0 and 4.6 in the stang. Although I haven't confirmed it, I believe they both use the same SAW (spark angle word) signal to the ignition system, and this is what controls the timing advance. Interestingly enough, the T4M0 was plug-n-play with my CV system. That is to say I was able to swap boxes and start the car. It required a good bit of tuning to run well, but it did run. I also made some more or less peripheral wiring changes to accommodate features that varied. (The SN95 will control your radiator fans btw.) What you do need to be aware of is that your firing order is different. I can lend a hand with that though. There are two ways to deal with that, either change the order in software (easiest) or swap wires at the PCM connector or at the injectors. This approach has the advantage of working without the tweecer, but can also possibly be used as a security feature so it won't run well without the tweecer if at all. Haven't tried that either.
|On a work PC, hoping this goes thru..|
I did a fair amount of mix/match, but when I got it running DIS I was using all stuff from cars that ran DIS. Basically I had a '98 Explorer EEC-V harness and used a '97 Mustang Cobra Computer wiht twEECer. It ran, but ran terrible and I could never get it tuned to stop stinking me out of the garage.
The T4MO is the 94/95 Mustang ECU like mentioned. The Cobras use the J4J1 ECU the nice thing is that the tunes on these are fairly interchangeable!! I know a bunch of mustang guys use the J4J1 in thier T4MO. I would recommend doing the firing order changes in the twEEcer. As mentioned it will make a GREAT antitheft. The twEECer has a 5 position switch, #1 bypasses the twEECer and runs the stock ECU tune, SO when you park the car flip it to #1 and the car will never run!!
I think my biggest contribution will be the twEECer stuff, though Jim still knows more about that than me. But I am here and will answer whatever I can.
|I'm still doing my research, though I'm not sure where all I need to be doing research. From what I gather, the 99-02 ford explorer uses the 5.0L motor with coil packs. What I don't know is if this is a the eec IV or the eec V system. Apparently the eec IV and the tweecer are a happy combination. Will it work with eec V? Larry what's your combo? I want to keep everything from one year vehicle if I can. I don't want to tell someone "well the computer is a 96 cobra, and the harness is an 01 explorer and the DIS is from a 00 mustang, and....." That would suck...|
|Sorry to say you have no choice on mix and match. There is no one system that will fit with DIS AND be tunable with twEECer. The Explorers with DIS are 96-01 (02 they went to new motors), they are all EEC-V and none are supported by twEECer and are the only 5.0's to ever get DIS. Now if you were running a stock 5.0 motor with a stock style cam you could use one of those systems, as the computer could learn the motor. The 96-98 were standard return style systems, the 99-01 are a returnless fuel system that cycles the FP to maintain proper Fuel Press.|
OK, I think to get what you need Jim will be the man. If I remember correctly, he used a 93-95 Ford Crown Victoria harness and DIS system, then plugged a (Take your pick of 89-95) Mustang ECU? Given your not running a 5.0 or a ford 4.6L, I don;t see any choice in that regard.
I have since scrubbed DIS as I don't want to do all the splicing of adding DIS and our local wrecking yards are a joke in terms of pulling wiring. SO I gave up on DIS for now and the Road car will be a plain jane Distributor system. One reason I had gone DIS was to clear the hoodline, turns out the 95 cobra has a shorter distributor which fits anyway, so I took advantage of that.
|So what's to say I can't get the 96-98 explorer system, and the mustang eec IV computer and put them together. Is the plug, and wiring harness COMPLETELY different, or just how the computer functions?|
|The explorers are EEC-V the musangs prior to 96 are all EEC-IV. Yes entirely different plug, Otherwise I would have done that also.|
|What to do, what to do... maybe a little more research is in order. There actually are some EEC-V systems that the tweecer works with, such as the '96 4.6L Mustangs (they did make those, right?) and I believe all 4.6's used EDIS, so that's one solution. Another is to use a SN95 processor and all parts, but pull an EDIS system from a 4.6 of any type and add it in. But my first recommendation would be to send Helm, Inc fifteen bucks for a wiring schematic of the vehicle you think you might want to use so you can see what you are getting into. This link has info on what processors are supported. I notice the L2W is still not listed:|
This thread was discussed between 17/11/2003 and 23/11/2003
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