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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - If you were to build another one!
|Just a bit of fun as it's not exactly fun driving weather at the moment, especially if you live up north.|
If money was no object what specification would you build your car to and for what use, ie track day, daily driver or fun occasional use and touring.
I won't put my spec in yet to give other a clean slate to start with.
|Ford 302 with a supra 5 speed box and fuel injection. Independent Rear Suspension, and one of those way too expensive front suspension things. |
Either some sort of an olive green or a deep blue color. I'd like fender flares, body colored windscreen fittings, and fiberglass front and rear "rubber bumpers"
Oh, and a starter that doesn't grind, and a good upper radiator hose too. ;-)
|Well, Id go with a Ford Duratec 4 cylinder, turbo with something like 15 lbs boost, Tremec T56 6 speed, and like above, an insanely expensive irs and ifs system.|
|Opel c20xe, 5 speed Ford type 9, Sierra diff with LSD, deDion rear axle and and a coilover front suspension. My plan is to have this car in a coulple of years. The coilover suspenision is already on the car.|
|i would buy a highly built subaru wrx and transplant the entire driveline (AWD) and suspension into a B.|
|James - I like the WRX idea! :-)|
I'd probably just stick with the 3.4 I used on the Jamaican, or if I were feeling in need of more power, I could alwys turbo it. 300 BHP in a 2000 lb. car SHOULD be adequate for anyone....
|455 Buick engine... Oh wait, we're already doing that one! OK, 340 Buick with a modern automatic transmission.... no wait, I'm already going to do that too. OK, How about an electric one? That should be a challenge!|
|A new Heritage shell, especially selected for its good and accurate panel fit. Mark one exterior but all set up for V8, extractors etc. I like bolting things together, not metalworking and painting.|
I'm not sure if I would stick with damask red (looks good with chrome), or British racing green. I'd better get one of each.
Leather Miata (I like the speakers) seats and new interior.
Mark one dash and instruments.
Mark one doors.
Windscreen frame highly polished and fitted (by someone else!)
Lexus V8 or a supercharged 4.6 Rover.
A guarantee that it will be registered.
I'll stick with the supra box.
IRS or a trailing three arm (the latter is going to happen some time soon).
RV8 Front crossmember with all the gear.
And since I'm dreaming..
All of the above would be delivered to a debt free, air conditioned and spacious garage that has a car hoist, along with rotisery. MIG's, Tigs, laths etc. Also a good sound system, may be a 65inch TV and comfy furnature for having rests. The garage should also have a stunning view over the ocean, large picture windows and also a gym and lap pool as well. Also the many delivery persons should be all attractive and female with an uncanny fascination for myself!
Have I left anything out?
|I am gathering parts now to build a stroker Rover. (5 liter). Still several hundred pounds lighter than ford's best. So even though the SBF might get more hp, the weight difference will probably bring it back into the same pounds/horsepower range. |
That is the figure you should keep in mind. pounds/horsepower. gives you the ballpark of what your car is going to do against others.
|"Still several hundred pounds lighter than ford's best. So even though the SBF might get more hp, the weight difference will probably bring it back into the same pounds/horsepower range."|
Lighter, yes, but definately NOT "several hundred" pounds less.
Assuming a 2200 pound car with a 200HP engine, we have 11 pounds per HP. Adding an additional 100 pounds but with 300HP, we have 2300/300 = 7.7 lbs/hp. Even should the Ford weigh 200 pounds more (it doesn't), the power/weight ratio would be 8 lbs/hp.
At 2200 pounds and 300hp from the Rover, we have 7.3 lbs/hp, a 5% difference, but how much more would this cost compared to the Ford?
In addition to lbs.hp, cost/hp is also a factor.
But, since we are just fantasizing here on our "dream" car, cost is not a factor.
Far more important in my mind than HP is the torque curve - how much, what shape, and where in the rpm range does it occur. Then take into account how you plan to use the car.
Grassroots magazine is running an article on a Mazda/MGB swap, and they make a big to-do about how the stock Mazda makes more HP than the stock BOP/Rover, but they very conveniently gloss over the fact that at any RPM below 5,000 the BOP/Rover makes more HP than the Mazda. How many of us routinely drive our cars over 5,000rpm? Every now and then it might be fun,or if you are street racing, but for most of the time, we'll all stay below 5,000. For normal street driving, you'd get a bigger kick in the pants from the BOP/Rover.
Looking at the amount of work involved in putting that engine into the MGB compared to the amount of work involved in putting a BOP/Rover, or even a Ford 302, it doesn't seem to me to be a good choice for street use.
If I were to build another one, money no object, I'd do exactly what I'm doing now. http://www.advanceautowire.com/mgbgtv8
|Some interesting thoughts there guys.|
Peter I paticularly like your wish list but with a garage like that and those delivery services! how much work would get done on the car, assuming you had any energy left.
How much do you reckon to fit the Supra gearbox with all the necessary parts?
Justin, Seems a popular route to go with the Ford 302 in the states, and makes a lot of sense in terms of Horse power for money. In the UK I feel that a totally alien engine might not find easy acceptance in the MG fraternity, nothing against it personally but it might be unsaleable at some later date, whilst a Rover is accepted as being an engine that was used by the factory anyway.
Jim, Been following your project with interest and applaud the enthusiam you have created for the project from so many people who mostly live quite large distances from yourself, I'm sure it will be quite something to drive when you get it up and running. The 340 with auto would make a great long distance touring car especially with proper soundproofing and an improved but compliant suspension and better brakes,
Bill, yes 300BHP and good torque from the turbo would do the trick in s 2000lb.car.
James, Interesting thought but you would have to build a new chassis to fit that lot into a B
Per I don't know anything about the Opel engine you mentioned, perhaps you could enlighten us.
Jarrod, Presumably thats similar to the UK ford Cosworth lump and would give a nice power to weight ratio.
Something to think about whilst retaining some Rover heritage.
May need to improve the suspension a bit, oh and do something about the aerodynamics.
|Dan, I didn't want you to think I left you out I was posting at the same time or slightly after you so your thread was not there at the time.|
I completely agree with you re low down torque making for a good road car, a good few years ago I had a 1986 BMW 525E which was an efficiency model, it had a 2.7L straight 6 engine designed to peak at only 4500RPM and had bucket fulls of torque from just off tickover upwards and mated to a good ZF HP22 4 speed auto box was incredible to drive, beautifully smooth,quiet and would cruise all day at 80MPH and return 35MPG, if they built a similar car today I would buy one, suppose I could buy a diesel which would have similar characteristics.
I think I posted re the car your building at Fast cars, I think it's going to be a great looking and super driving machine.
What kind of front suspension are you talking about? The Hoyle one?
Write me and we can talk about this off line.
|Werner Van Clapdurp|
|Werner: Check out the pictures from the link that Dan attached. Specifically, this picture:|
It's a pretty incredible front suspension setup. Pretty expensive too. ;-)
I suspect I could hobble together the supra setup with bits and pieces stateside, but I think I would rather just buy a bell housing from Dellow in Austrailia and call it a day. Maybe $1,000 US total?
|I'd also use Adrian Ackursts extractors instead of the RV8 ones. |
AA Automotive & MG Adelaide Workshops
Phone: (61) (0)8 83644988
14 Nightingale Avenue MAGILL South Australia 5072
Some one told me he was charging alot less than he used to.
When I bought off dellow
three years ago it cost me around $1700 Australian for the full kit including delivery and Tax. That includes the rebuilt W58 gear box plus clutch, speedo cable driveshaft end etc. The gear box was $700. At the time a rebuilt rover box was over $2000, not quite as good and required cutting the transmission tunnel (which the supra/toyota doesn't). Money well spent I think.
His prices will have gone up a little since.
If I were doing it again I would only buy the bellhousing spigot bush and fork plus bearing. They were $420 three years ago. I would source my gearbox and other bits elswhere. No real problems other than he was slow delivering the gearbox, and I'm sure cheaper are availiable locally, and freight chargess would be less. The bell housing is light.
Thats what these guys do http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/html/motorsportparts.htm#Transmission
and are obviously making a profit on a similiar price.
So Justin, taking inflation and exchange rates into account, less than $500 US certainly.
This is work?
Energy hmm, A top of the line expresso machine, one of those Italian ones with big polished boilers and lots of chrome ..etc.
Oh and a sauna as well.
|Opel c20xe is the same engine as Vauxhall c20xe (Cavalier GSi 16V).|
Will the Lexus V8 fit. I think I have only seen Bs with either push rod V8s or single cam per bank V8s. The Lexus V8 will be a dohc per bank 4 valve per chamber engine. I assumed that such an engine would be too wide across the heads. Do you know better?
I had assumed that one of the atractions of a V6 was that provided it is a 60 degree unit you could pit a dohc per bank 4 valve per chamber engine in as it would be narrower.
Also can anyone tell me what the difference is between the Ford 302 5L V8 engine that is popular with US converters and the Ford 4.6L V8 engine from the Mustang. MG used the Mustang 4.6 in the ZT260 so it is in the family so to speak.
|Surprised there were no comments about the 950BHP Rover 4.8 I linked to above.|
|What's so unusual about that?|
|I'd like to see a pic along with the graph!|
|Heres Wildcat Rngineering site.|
Enjoy but don't ask how much.
|Some one up in Queensland Austalia was doing one at one stage. There were photos of the engine placed in the engine bay. It looked like it was very possible.|
The starter is in the valley in the lexus, and the plenum is lower than the rover. The oil filter appeared to be better placed. It seemed to be very tight around the bulkhead (unclear photo), but that is not news.
I haven't seen anything else on it, I suspect that legality might have killed it.
The Ford 260(4.3)/289(4.8)/302(5.0)/351(5.8) family is considered the Ford Small block V8. It uses OHV pushrod design with one camshaft centrally located in the block. (similar to Buick/Rover etc.)
The Ford 4.6/5.4 are the Modular family of V8's that replaced the Small block. They are an Overhead cam design using newer technology. The cylinder head has 3 versions ,2 valve, 3 valve and 4 valves per cylinder heads.
The Modular motors are a few inches wider than the OHV Small block, which makes them much more difficult to convert into a B.
|I forgot to mention... I'd steal Scott Miller's car to use for the body and interior. ;-)|
|I'm not sure I'd do anything more than I have, If money were no object I'd just do it to the next level of refinement. Oh and pay someone to do it!|
|Dan M. Do not forget that the V6 has more power than the stock 215 Buick and it's easier to fit in the B.|
Money does buy everything, so, I would buy a Alum. V6 block from GM 3.4 (block only weights 80lb) purpose build the engine for Supercharger with cast iron heads with Chevy small block valves and springs. 13 -15 psi on the street should be good for 450+ hp Blow through style and it would have lots more torque than the SBF 5.0 well....4-6 psi would bring to the same level as the Ford.Yes, lighter.
Lighter, powerful, easy to maintain, fun etc..
I would add power windows, satellite radio, full coil over suspension, big brakes etc etc.
All of the parts would come from CCE, I can get the parts at cost.
AND, one off wheels from Chip Fose
Sounds good, I may just do it.
|"Do not forget that the V6 has more power than the stock 215 Buick and it's easier to fit in the B."|
I haven't forgotten, and it's a heck of a lot easier to install than the Miata that Grassroots magazine used.
|The 3.4 may have more power over the Buick 215, but it will still sound like a Minivan...... :)|
|"The 3.4 may have more power over the Buick 215, but it will still sound like a Minivan"|
LOL, i think bill forgot to mention that every CCE kit comes with soccer ball stickers for your windscreen.
|"I haven't forgotten, and it's a heck of a lot easier to install than the Miata that Grassroots magazine used."|
That article still burns me up. Where did he get those HP numbers? My 215 was a stock rebuild (of the high HP model) & makes 160 HP at the wheels. No way would I trade it for a Miata 4 banger engine!
|James, the sticker is extra and NOW we are including a CD with a choice of V8 sounds with every kit (extra)|
We were working on a V10/V12 Ferrari sound, but, they sound similar to the V6 so we stoped the project.
I had a 1990 Miata EP race car with 180/200 hp the hp was in the upper 5000 to 8800 range It was not cheap to get the hp and it took lots of maintanence.
My best friend has a 91 Miata, you need to take it to 3200 rpm to get any power to wisper about.
If anyone wants to do that amount of work, then install a V8 SBF actually less work.
Dynos can be play with to show great #'s Some dynos have a heat sensor, more power more heat. Some techs get the sensor closer to the manifold, and, yes, more hp and many other tricks.
Carl,Dan, I do not have a clue of why a Miata transplant.
Why not a SBF V8 or any other V8 or a V6 Who knows.
|"NOW we are including a CD with a choice of V8 sounds with every kit"|
Can I order that CD without buying the your complete conversion kit? I'll be coming to the V8 meet in my wife's car, by way of Maine, so it'd be nice to play that CD on the road (my wife gets tired of me going vroom, vroom, vroom as I drive).
BTW, her car has a 215 HP 3.2L V6. That engine would make a nice swap into a B!
|do ya think she would miss the motor in her car dan if someone borrowed it during the show???|
|"do ya think she would miss the motor in her car dan if someone borrowed it during the show???"|
I don't know, James, she was pretty unhappy when she caught me measuring it! She gave me one of those "don't even think about it" looks.
|Most of y'all weren't to happy with the German ownership of MG/Rover, so I don't think you'd want to use that particular V6 in an MGB.|
|WE won't tell about it Carl, keep it to yourself.|
Dan, would you prefer SBF, BOP, SBC, FIA 289 Ford.
I like the loud exhaust from a V6/V8, it keeps the passenger quiet and the trip a joy!!!!
|If I tried another swap, I'd definitely go 60*, from my current 3.8 90* V6, as Bill, Dan, and knowledgeable others, suggested before my gitgo. The 3.9 at 60* seems almost too good to be true for the MGB converter! Vic|
|I believe I have about the ultimate conversion..... Nissan SR20DET (Turbo). Has about 300BHP at wheels and potential to get 500+ (but God knows why you'd want that much in a 'B). Has huge vented disks on front with nissan skyline 4 pot calipers, and many suspension tweaks. Best off the engine, with all accoutrements, is lighter than standard so rather than negative effect on handling there is actually an improvement.|
|I started this so here's my wish list.|
1. Peter from Melbournes dream garage.
2.GT body to spec of Dan Masters car in process of being built but with sebring front valence and additional splitter to reduce lift.
3. Engine. 5.0 Wildcat engineering with throttle body injection and full electronic management for a drivable 350 BHP.
4. Toyota Supra W58 Gearbox
5. Fast Cars IFS and braking system and steering.
6. Jaguar narrowed IRS with 3.31-1 ratio and LSD without the Jag cage to save weight and allow fitment of efficient twin pipe exhaust system.
7.Minilight style 6 x 15 front and 7 x 15 rear wheels
with 195/65 front tyres and 225/60 rear tyres.Yoko Proxes.
8.I love the colour, Jaguar Alpine green I've just had mine painted, so probably would use it again.
9. Custom quality interior with comfortable and supportive seats.
10. Dan Masters wiring system.
The car should be good for 0 - 60 in about 4 seconds and have a top speed of 160MPH + I think that should do it.
I'm not going to add up the cost of that.
Now what about a Bonneville record car, based on a roadter shell without screen and a bubble cover for the cockpit, aerodynamics enhanced to prevent take off! a 950BHP Wildcat twin turbo engine, for a new production sports car record ( It's a MGB V8) of 250MPH ?
I here some Americans have bought the MG ZTT estate and are intending running at Bonneville with a view to achieving the same speed ie. 250MPH
|I'll jump in|
1. Custom frame
2. BMW 3 series suspension (upgrade to M specs.)
3. 5.0 Ford with FI
4. Tremec 5 speed
5. Body like the Fast Car's little red car
6. Mount body on frame, tilt foward frount-end
7. American Racing Torq Thrust wheels
Begins to sound like a Cobra kit car :)
|Brendon, where are you located? Am interested in your rear setup...any pictures?|
This thread was discussed between 30/06/2007 and 25/07/2007
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