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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - supra tranny w/ 302

Following up on the discussion from my other thread, I checked with Northwest Offroad on their bellhousing kit to adapt a supra w58 tranny to a ford 302. The kit is $667.95 (plus shipping), which includes the bellhousing, slave cylinder, friction plate and pilot bushing. Requires use of a 164 tooth flywheel and a redrilled pressure plate (extra $$).

So, price wise, this certainly isn't any cheaper than using a t5, even though I already have the w58 tranny. The w58 is supposed to be really smooth-shifting which makes it attractive. On the other hand, the t5 is a no-brainer for availability and it works fine.

Any one want to try to convince me one way or the other?

Ryan
Ryan Reis

Be different. Everyone has 302's and T5's.
Justin

LOL --are you offering financial support Justin ?
Gil Price

Be WAY different, leave the supra motor on the w58.
james madson

Ryan, I've been following your quest to hook up the W58 to a Ford 302 and I'll repeat the old saying "Just because you CAN do something.... doesn't mean you SHOULD do something". I really think the best 5-speed to go with is the T5. I'll explain:

The W58 is a good box but it's medium duty at best. The largest engine Toyota used it behind I believe was the 3.0L non-turbo L6. The other applications were four cylinder engines. Yes, I know the Aussies make bellhousings to mate them to any number of V8's and V6's but that's mostly out of neccesity. Their choices of 5-speeds are limited down under. Your's are not.

For the price of that Northwest Off Road kit you can rebuild your own T5. I like to think that money expended should be a factor in any swap.

The T5 may not be as smooth a shifter as the W58, but the Ford T5 version has better ratio's and a deeper overdrive.

However, if you're still interested in adapting the W58, there's a a good news - bad news piece of info you may be able to use. The good news is.. you can swap in the 7.5" input shaft from a Jeep AX5 (NOT AX15) into the W58 (with some grinding I'm told). That might help any plate you might want to fabricate. The bad news is that if you do this... you get stuck with the AX5 3.93:1 first gear ratio.

The OTHER Aisin tranny is the Supra Turbo R154 which can also be adapted with an Advance Adapter Jeep AX15 plate. Don't know what it costs offhand but it ain't cheap. The R154 can take on a 302 with no problems... but... it's 9.5" wide across the beam. May not fit your tunnel.

Well, there you go. My opinon... go with the T5... be happy... :-)

Greg
Greg

My thoughts kinda lean towards Greg's reasoning. I'm not so worried about the strength of the w58, as I'm not building a drag car. As I said, I have a w58 already that I got for next to nothing. However, I'm not going to spend $700 for the kit when I can just rebuild my t5 for the same price. If I had a r154 I'd probably buy the Advance Adapter plate as it's under $300. As it stands, I'll probably go with the t5.

Thanks for the info Greg.

Ryan
Ryan Reis

Greg,

Just to file away, what is involved with swapping in the ax5 input shaft? Will it mate up with the counter shaft, or does that have to be changed too? If I wanted to go CHEAP, I could make my own adapter plate if I used the ax5 input. Just forget about using first gear. On the other hand, the 8.8 I have had narrowed has a 2.73 gear, so the 3.93 first might not be too bad.

Ryan
Ryan Reis

Contact Michael Jamison: Michael@JamisonWorkshop.com

He's got the skinny.

Greg
Greg

I bought a new Tremec 5 speed 'world class whatever that means' from local Ford motorsports dealer a couple years ago for about $1000... that about the same cost of a rebuild of the old T-5 I had. Actually the rebuild was going to be $900.
Boyce

Greg,

I just wish to correct one of your comments. Aussies do have ready access to T5 gearboxes. In fact these are generally more readily available and cheaper than the Supra boxes. Both the local Ford and GM cars have been supplied with them for years.

The only reason the Supra box is favoured over here is the fact that the Supra box is rated at a greater power output than the BW T5 (or at least the locally available T5).

The tech data in the following table indicates the most powerful stock engine the W58 was fitted to was 230hp. The gearbox itself was rated for higher.

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/gearboxes.html

In Oz many club racing enthusiasts use the same box mated to even higher output engines.

Putting the above aside however, I would have to agree that the conversion bellhousing kits produced by Dellow are very expensive. My budget doesn't extend that far unless I pick up one second hand.

Dom
Dom

Hi Dom,
I will stand corrected. However, I'd like to buy an argument of a couple of points. I have yet to see an actual factory torque rating on any Aisin gearbox except the AR5 out of the Colorado/Canyon pickups (230 ft/lbs). So I am still mystified by some of the uses the W58 gets. The 230HP you've made reference to is the 7M-GE 3.0L L6 out of the Supra. My concern is the actual torque the transmission is capable of handling and the gross vehical weight. Admittedly, MGB's are very light so the gearbox will last quite well with a higer torque input. I don't doubt a mild 302 won't hurt a W58 in an MGB.

But... once you start adding go fast parts, how long will it last? Don't know. This is where I think a V8 version of the T5 would be a better option. Better gear ratio's and a whole lot less costly than a W58 converision kit. (I would never consider a V6 T5. Do you gents down under get the V8 or V6 version?).

Anyway, there are some deals to be had up this way on Ebay. Just have to know what to look for.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Advance-Adapters-Inc-Jeep-to-Chevy-bell-housing_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33733QQitemZ8003829633QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Greg

http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740
Greg

I've a W58 behind a Rover 3.9 and it is really smooth. Almost too good because if you are a little sloppy in your gear change you can easily change from 5th to second and you won't notice until you let up the clutch! How-ever the top overdrive ratio is 0.78 and I believe that the T5 has the option of 0.63. I quite enjoy takeing off in second gear, but sometimes I think it would be nice to have a 0.6 over drive. By the way, you can get a 6 gear supra gearbox with two overdriven gears. The ultimate. Not cheap though.
wrt the kit. Most people in the know only buy the bell housing, spigot bush and fork part of the kit. This was around the $450 Australian mark a short while ago. 'Bout half that in american $. You can set up your own clutch etc easily enough. I quite like the idea of the weber throw out bearing. Bit hard to get here. I might add I bought the whole kit plus gear box. Experience is expensive!. I actually ended up discarding Dellows prefered slave and clutch and using a Range rover 1 inch slave (hose thread matches MG) and a rover clutch.
I have the impression that the T5 may not fit into the tranny tunnel without an upward extension being put in and the gear lever ends up way way further back. The supra box easily fits in the tunnel and the gear lever ends up about 1 cm further forward whicch is easily accomodated by the boot. I actually set mine up in exactly tha same spot, but had to dress back the bulkhead, about 1 cm. Bottom line the supra is easy!
If you are looking for a good deal then keep an eye out for Rover 5 speed conversions or Leyland P76's.
These often have supra gearbox conversions and the sellers are not aware that these a good for MGB's as well. Infact there are a few Rovers around using Dellows 3/4 inch slave which makes for a WAY heavy clutch, owner don't like it and want to get rid.
Peter

Peter: What's your rear axle ratio?
Justin

justin,
Standard old '75 MG.
It's about the only thing on the car I haven't taken apart or replaced! Tempting fate here.
I don't want to change it cause my car is a daily driver and the low first gear is useful for car parks and traffic. It would be miserable jumping on and off the clutch through peak hour. Secondgear is great for taking off at speed and you're well over 60k's before you need change. Third gear good for sudden surges of accelleration.
Infact the gears are dead right, expect the MG V8 is so over powered it could easily cope with another overdriven gear lower than 0.78 (current fifth).
You can actualy get a 6 gear supra box, with a second overdriven gear, but they are over $2000!.
peter

Hah!

http://www.fordforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16300

Greg
Greg

Well it looks like a supra box, whats the story. The Bell housing is different from mine obviously, not sure if it is dello.

Just a thought, go to dellow direct.
http://www.dellowauto.com.au/main.html

they are well set up to ship O/S, do it all the time.

Just gave him a call (Jeff Dellow)
His Prices have gone up!

$495 Bell housing, $85 Fork+ pivot ball, $35 spigot Bush Australian translates to about $430 US, not $670
Obviously ou don't need the fork if you are using a weber TOB.
Peter

Peter,
Perhaps the difference in costs tabled in this thread can be explained by Aussie Post charges? (I am amazed at how cheap USPS is in the reverse direction when we want to import something from US to here).

Greg,
We have both Ford inline 6s and V8s and GM V6s and V8s out here. I believe our Holden "Monaro" is now available at your end rebadged as a Pontiac "GTO". http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/alias__carpointau/tabID__84014/ArticleID__4636/DesktopDefault.aspx
Now that you mention it I am not sure about the manual gearbox options with the V8s - would need to ask one of the rev heads in the office or other mates from Ford or GMH.

Regards,

Dom
Dom

Just to give you gents an example of what's available out there, I picked up this adapter plate for $70 from a gent on the Pirate 4x4 Board. It mates a Supra Turbo R154 to a Ford bellhousing.

http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5999

Neat

Greg
Greg

This is not rocket science. The parts are ready made, the combinations have already been proven, and on other continents it's been in use for a long time.

I remember a few years ago when using a 302 in an MG was a pipe dream. There were about 4 of them that were known to exist, and everyone balked that it weighed more and you had to chop up your car to do it. Look where we're at today....

Funny how time changes things.
Justin

Nice buy Greg! Is that the Advance Adapters plate?

Ryan
Ryan Reis

Yep Ryan, that's exactly what it is. Hang out in some 4x4 forums or check Ebay and the Australian Ebay. You should be able to find something for a good price.

Greg
Greg

This thread was discussed between 03/10/2005 and 14/10/2005

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