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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - What do you guys make of this.

This is what the EPA thinks of engine switching. The
>EPA views any modification/altering of the emission system of an
>emission certified car which results in noticeable increases in
>environmental air emissions as vehicle tampering. Placing in older
>engine or a bigger engine in a car would probably result in noticeably
>higher gas emissions. This would probably cause such an altered car to
>fail the emissions test. If it fails, the car would have to
>have the vehicle emissions system restored to its certified
>configuration. The only way to get around this is too switch with an
>engine that has been certified for that car, an identical engine type,
>or an engine that was made after the car was made. For a car made in
>1977, this would mean an engine that was made in 1978 or later.
>
>You can find more information on the Vehicle Emissions Program
>at


What do you people think of this as far as engine possibities for a swap.
The G

The G

I am converting a '76 B which, in Maryland anyway, isn't subject to the emission checks. Ironically, my engine turned out to be a '76 Rover unit! I think that most states (with the exception of California) have similar guidelines. I stay away from anything later than '76 for this reason.

Joe
Joseph Lagasse

That has always been a standard over here in the US to my knowledge.

The GOOD thing is that in many states they have a "classic" car cut-off on emissions testing. Here in WA it is 25 years. the NICE thing is WA only requires emissions every other year. SO as of now cars made 1978 and before no longer ned emissions, next year the 79's will be excluded. SO it is no longer an issue.

Aside from states like CA a properly tuned rover, 215 or even carb'd 302 will pass emissions unless you are using a radical cam or other set-up..
Larry Embrey

So does this mean as long as I place a 78 Plus V8 and that engine meets the 77 1.8L emisions then I am good to go?
The G

Here in Missouri there are certain counties which have high levels of emmisions where cars are subject to a visual check for emmisions hardware. Most inspectors don't mind a swap if the engine has the necessary hardware for the year of the car, but the last time I had my car inspected the guy told me that if I was ever questioned he'd swear that there was a 4 cylinder there when he inspected it. I guess I'll have to find another inspector next year. As for trying to be eco-friendly, I kept all the hardware and computer for the electronic fuel injection along with the catalytic converter. The car's cleaner now than it was when new.
Bill Young

Some states require the emssions controls on an engine swap to conform to the rules in effect for the year of the ENGINE. Some require the emissions controls to conform to the year of the CAR. Some states have a cutoff date for inspections, some don't. Better check with your state officials before proceeding. Or do an internet search.
Dan Masters

Looking at the Rules closer it apears a 1968-1980 cars only need to pass a idle test.


Has anyone had a later model V8 tested and what where the numbers?
The G

In order to be as safe as possible, my car is a 67 with a 63 buick engine. This doesn't mean that I won't ever have to meet emmissions as the laws can change anytime.
James Johanski


Of course, most of us use newly rebuilt engines for our conversions (not highly worn oil burners), most of us put very few miles on our conversions and keep them out of commuter traffic (where the stop-and-go miles would increase pollution), and although the engines we choose for MGB conversions are larger than stock, they're still relatively low displacement engines (and thus cleaner than large engines). Furthermore, since our cars are light weight (2400 pounds is light, even by today's standards) and since they have a low frontal area (less than half that of a SUV) and a relatively low coeficient of drag, the net result is that they typically get pretty good fuel economy (25mpg+), which is largely proportional to emissions.

All that said, (and I know this won't be popular) if I were doing it again, instead of a '63 Buick motor for my '71 MGGBT, I'd probably choose a late model Japanese engine. It's been 11 years since I did my conversion, and the engine alternatives have improved dramatically.

Curtis


Maybe I should have also said: The EPA has no credible enforcement capability for cars that are actually in service. State and local authorities are likely to have stricter rules and better mechanisms for enforcing them. /

Back in North Carolina my local authorities only cared that whatever smog equipment the car was built with was still intact. (My local garage had responsibility for checking that, along with the annual safety inspection.) Here in Boulder County, Colorado it passed its idle test.
For what it's worth, I think these tests are a good thing, so long as it's possible to pass them. The fit survive and the breed improves.
Curtis

Curtis, Colorado

Most of what I listed is what the state is I just erased the state when it was mentioned.
The G

Good Comments,
Dan M hit it I think right on what many states have.. Basically, it seems like the EPA laws are of the idea that your vehicle need to pass emissions for the newest item on the vehicle either chassis or Engine.

78MGB with 1990 mustang engine, you would need to meet 1990 emissions, IF emissions testing is required for the chassis. Of course states and localities vary. Vice Versa a '63 Buick 215 in a 78 chassis would have to met 78 emissions standards..
Larry Embrey

Once I had a collateral duty in my job that involve working with the APCD (Air Pollution Control Dept.) In the state of California. In Ventura County is where the EPA tests the new laws etc. Due to the conditions in Ventura County Ca. From May to October and from early morning to 10 am we have a marine layer that prevents the sun from burning all of the small particles thus creating a perfect location for pollution testing. It was found that cars we no smog devices and in good tune ran clean. Cars equipped with smog devices in bad tune also passed. The point is that the smog devices were created and installed in cars, was in part due to the owners who do not maintain their cars thus the devices prevent from producing high levels of unburn gases.
Also new vehicles get better gas mileage thus producing fewer hydrocarbons.
Ca. is testing with smog station on the Freeways and roads that will be able to sniff your car as you go by them, if you car is emit dirty gasses it will take a picture of the license plate (Funded in part by the EPA) and send a notice to the owner. This eventually will be implemented in others states. In a way this is good, if you run a MGB with 700 hp no smog devices etc. and passes the snifter, then the car is running clean and everyone is happy. Eventually this will eliminate the testing every two years in Ca. and other states.

There are organizations that help lobbying for the car enthusiast one of these organizations is ACCC (Association of California Car Clubs Inc.) This organization was instrumental is stopping the old car crushing law in Ca. among other things.
Check you local state for such organizations and join.
Cost to join is very minimal $5/10 dollars per year. This is a great investment if it means saving our hobby.
EPA is going for the 0 pollution law, EPA tried to pass this law in Ca. in the year 2000
EPA mandates the amount of pounds of pollution that each state has to reduce every year.

Test has shown that some plants (trees etc.) produce gasses that register as if a car was producing the gasses, Lots $$$ has been invested on this in Ventura County.
Lawn mowers, Imagine in a populated area of 4 million people, if 10% would fill lawn mowers with gas (Polluting with fumes) and start them to do their lawn. Not only cars produce pollutants, the list goes on and on.



Bill Guzman

Here in Washington State they have figured out that you did not need to test new cars. With the emissions on new cars it is unlikey that they would not pass. If they run, they pass. I think it is the first three or four years that they don't test for new cars. Not bad if you have a new car. Also, all cars 25 years or older are not tested or inspected. That lets you know what years to do a conversion and not have any licencing problems.

Jim
Jim Lema

Starting next year all 30+ year-old cars will be exempted from the DREADED California Air Resources Board manditory bi-annual inspection! Every subsequent year the "exempt" cut-0ff year will move forward one. So in 2008 I will be free to install that blown HEMI and be legal! Marc
Marc Judson

This thread was discussed between 28/01/2003 and 09/02/2003

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